"Can you say it another way?"

Bunpro
#41

I would like to point out one thing as well:

I believe even if you master adding such a small nuances to your Japanese I don’t think natives will notice it. They will probably assume you don’t get the difference if you will try to use less common one in given situation to add nuance.

Look at this this way:
I know there is a difference between “must” and “have to” but I know it is so small that there is not point in bothering. Do you think if I would use “have to” in situation that “must” make more sense to add some nuance, you would assume I tried to communicate something extra? I don’t think so. I just made a few mistakes. You will assume it is just another one.

#42

Thank you for your contributions to this thread, but it’s clear that you and I have different language goals. I am interested in that small difference, and being dismissive of that is quite frustrating.
This だす vs はじめる isn’t the only grammar point that has this “Can you say it another way” prompt, just an example of one that I’ve seen frequently. Also, citing the “must” and “have to” example is contradicting your point; the hints for these specify if you should use いけない or ならない.

2 Likes
#43

In Japanese it maybe more dramatical difference than English (eg politeness level does not almost exist in English grammar).

And I am not sure if we have different goals. We for sure have different strategy - which is fine.

I want to have better Japanese than most of Japanese people at some point (that’s why i bother analysing semantical difference here). I just aim at functionality first and want to study language history and nuance in books written in Japanese by Japanese experts for Japanese people. I am one of that people that want to read and maybe even write poetry in Japanese at some point (I simple do not care that much about English - it is a tool I do not love).

It is different strategy really. I don’t see a point to analyse haiku before I can read novels for teens first.

But you are perfectly ok to have your own strategy. I already ask for option for you that would help you with that :hugs:

I see quite often and I am glad I do. I personally think it does not happen often enough. I guess you already know my reasons. So we can just agree to disagree.

You can make you case in new feature request is pushed forward. I would not expect Admins to read whole discussion.

#44

I think because that person automatically wrote ありますか with the question particle か even though the か is already there.

2 Likes
#45

Always happens xD

2 Likes
#46

At least creators of this site are people of culture :grin:

01
Screenshot 2021-01-18 at 23.21.01.png2534×362 135 KB

1 Like
#47

If you answer something that is grammatically correct, but BunPro is trying to test/teach another way to say the same thing, then it takes to give little hint/error messages to help you get to the “correct” form…

After using BunPro for awhile you will see these (unless you have a very good memory and don’t make these kinds of mistakes.)

2 Likes
#48

Sorry if this has already been said, but if you aren’t doing it yet, when you learn new grammar, pay close attention to the surrounding words… Not the grammar point itself, but the surrounding words. About 80% of the time it will help you decode the correct answer.

Is the speaker using humble language?
Are there any clues about the age of the speaker?
Is the sentence full of slang?
Is the sentence about something occuring naturally/artificially?
Is there any clues about the speakers viewpoint?
What is the speakers goal?
What time did the action occur that the speaker is talking about?

If nuance is your jam, carefully read the whole sentence, then ask yourself what fits best.

5 Likes
#49

Sorry for bumping my old thread, but I recently had another frustrating run-in with this and I think the conversation is still relevant to have.

In particular, ～そうだ; ～らしい; ～みたい; ～と聞いた; っぽい still trigger these messages, even though each of them really have a distinct meaning.

I really think Bunpro would benefit from a “strict” setting that removes all of these hints. I find myself still answering incorrectly on a lot of these, seeing the correct answer, thinking “oops, I knew that”, and opps-ing it to the correct answer. I do this despite realizing that this will be detrimental to me further down the line. I can’t help but feel that the current system doesn’t encourage me to actually learn the similar grammar points but just remember a cluster of grammar that is used interchangeably, and I wouldn’t be surprised if other users felt similarly.

1 Like
#50

It would be nice if the coders went through each of those, “Can you say it another way?” hints and made them more specific. I suggested once that they should hint ～と聞いた as the “literal” one, since that’s how my brain sees it. I can see why that’d be a tall order on their end. I do see your point; when the hint is that vague, our efforts can devolve into a guessing game, or worse, memorizing the sentence rather than the grammar.

3 Likes