Differences between よう、みたい、らしい、とみえる、そう

Bunpro
#19

That is indeed a problem. When I read the orange nuance hint I can tell the answer in most cases without reading the sentence.

I always start with hidden translation and hint so that I can read the sentence without any hints. But the orange nuance hint also shows when “review english” is set to “hide”. So I can even tell the answer without seeing the yellow hint or reading the sentence.

Maybe you should hide the orange nuance hint as well when users set “review english” ton"hide".

On the other hand the nuance hint is necessary because there are just way too many similar grammar points.

One solution could be: just show the nuance hint when the user uses a similar grammar point as his answer to guide him to the right grammar point.

Another way would be that you (Bunpro) try to define any possible alternative answer for each sentence and if the user types in one of these alternative answers you show ‘not looking for …’.
As for now, there are still lots of sentences where similar grammar is not added as alternative answer.

2 Likes
#20

I don’t have any specific methods I use right now, unfortunately. I think sidestepping the nuance (mostly) in the regular SRS is probably fine. It could get really confusing to have too much focus on nuance there. For that, giving hints and warnings is probably sufficient.

However, I think developing a new study mode that focuses on nuances would be great. It could quiz you on similar grammar points together, through a combination of fill in the blank, matching, and whatever else. This section would likely need several dozen sentences per grammar point to be useful, but thankfully the number of grammar points that have nuanced differences is relatively small. Perhaps there’d be a way to quiz on the nuances themselves too, and not just through sentences (e.g. select the grammar point from this list that requires visual evidence).

3 Likes
#21

@seanblue
@Anthropos888
In new N3 sentences that were added recently, we often tried to add context in a form of short dialogue as a less direct hint.
I think that going this way might be the best form of testing knowledge.
Ohh, and many alternative answers are added already :grin:

3 Likes
#22

I just came around this little problem here:

Screenshot_2018-12-23%20Reviews%20Japanese%20Grammar%20SRS
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The grammar point clearly claims “to try to, to make sure that” = ようにする, yet the answer is just “ように”, which I find highly confusing since the grammar structure also claims “Verb + よう・に・する” and “Verb[ない] + よう・に・する”.

Not once does it mention that the する part can/has to be omitted in certain situations. I also didn’t find anything about that in the reading resources that are linked on BunPro, though I might have simply missed that.

1 Like
#23

It’s not omitted. It’s right there in yellow as して.

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#24

Hey :bowing_man:

The three examples in this lesson were using a bit different grammar point (including the sentence you are asking about). And we are really sorry about that. I have changed them to the ones that fit grammar point more. That yellow して was not a part of the expression.

Aように + B. Which means to do B so that A. It is phrase very similar to ために、のに etc, but the verb is generally something that is beyond speaker’s/writer’s/subject of B control/will. A is non-past verb.
It doesn’t have its own grammar point on Bunpro (yet). A is generally verb in potential form or negative form.

I will write some example sentences later, since it is sleeping time for me haha :zzz:

@seanblue

4 Likes
ように・ような - Grammar Discussion
#25

The そう and にみえる grammar still have sentences where both answers are correct but bunpro marks the answer as wrong. Since the orange hints are almost identical you need to show a message when the user types in one or the other instead of marking the answer wrong.

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#26

Hey!
I will be checking every sentence in those gramamar points today or tomorrow :sunglasses:

#27

Can anyone clarify why the sentence " Similar to sandals, they are easy to put on." is mitai ni instead of you ni?

Both explain themselves as “[Used to express similarity of someone/something to someone/something else. In terms of appearance or manner of doing something.]” - so I am pretty unclear as to when to use one vice the other.

Any assistance would be appreciated. Thank you.

1 Like
#28

みたいに is more casual expression.
But other than that they are the same, when it comes to expressing similarity.v:+1:

#29

Thank you.

But for the sake of the exercise, is there a reason why you ni gives an incorrect answer when I put it in? Is there a way to know that this is a more casual sentence?

1 Like
#30

It is working perfectly in this case, but since sandals are a noun, you have to add の before ように (it is not the case for みたい, which can simply follow noun). You have probably not used のように. :+1:

#31

Can BunPro reflect this for future acceptable entries (sorry, I know this isn’t a feature request page). Usually, BP is pretty good about alternative endings (or at least gives a “not looking for…” message but みたい and よう are fairly interchangeable and are presented as such in several grammar books.

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#32

It is working perfectly in this case, but since sandals are a noun, you have to add の before ように (it is not the case for みたい, which can simply follow noun). You have probably not used のように. :+1:

@dlbmbis

Sorry, I forgot to mention you in the answer :bowing_man:

#33

I think this thread could use a revisit in light of the revision to the hint system.

3 Likes
#34

I encountered this when doing review. The hint really confusing for me :sweat_smile:
I thought ようだ is already conversational because of だ not です, but seems it is not. Might be good to use “less formal” than this confusing term “appearance” which didn’t trigger anything for me :sweat_smile:

whatisthiss
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You can see that there is no keyword “appearance” in the correct grammar point:

noappearance
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I really think hints should trigger recalling memory rather than using vague sentences and wasting time on interpreting what it is.

2 Likes
#35

@Sidgr Thank you for bumping this thread and reminding us that we need to take another look at how we display hints/information for these grammar points. Cheers!

@jamie Thank you for providing your insight! I have updated both ようだ and みたい to throw more explicit warnings to lead you to the correct answer more quickly. Cheers!

5 Likes
#36

Maybe this goes without saying, but the ideal hints (in the answer blanks) should be thoughts/descriptions that I’d naturally have if I was trying to form an entire Japanese sentence by myself, like “I need a casual ‘seems like’ that works as a comparison…” (みたい)

I think this grammar point’s hint-in-the-blank should be something like:
[casual・observable・comparison].

2 Likes
#37

Found a pretty nice example for the difference between よう、そう、らしい

1 Like
#38

What theme is that? We need some kind of “Light Classic” theme back in Bunpro, if it’s not in there already!

1 Like