Do you think playing pokemon is good for practicing reading?

Japanese
#12

My level is around JLPT N3 and I played over 15 video games in japanese, most of them for one hour, before switching because I prefered other resources or just playing in english.

I would like to share what are the two rules for me at this level in choosing games to play in japanese:

  • Play games with high production value : dub, characters animation…
    (because context is key in all communication, and 2D retro games is low context)

At first I played a lot of old games or games with low graphics, as they’re the most common in japanese learner circles (lots of retro gamers and Nintendo players at a time when the best options were Nintendo DS because 3DS is region locked), and they are my kind of games after all!
I was struggling in a lot of situations where the language was kinda basic. One day I played Chrono Trigger which I know very well with both versions side by side, and I noticed how much a dialog can be random and hard to understand what the point is, out of context (especially true with optional villagers dialog in JRPGs).
Playing games like Yakuza which have dub and rich characters animations, I was able to understand a lot more of lines which carried richer and weirder vocabulary. Speech intonation is giving such a relief to your brain to know what the dialog shoud be about. Once I got the global context, looking for the specific vocabulary and remembering it seemed much more easy (= cost less motivation) to me.

The only problem with dub is that it sometimes mean dialog can’t be stopped which is the biggest pain you can encounter in the beginning.

  • Go for what you WANT to play

Two extreme cases of this rule:
A low intermediate game which has been recommended but I have not real interest to play : I’ll drop it after (for me a good exemple is Little Charo which is basically an english course in japanese, sometimes recommended by japanese learners)
A high intermediate game which I want to play because it matches my taste: I spend hours on it, and each new word seems to stick in my brain. (latest exemple for me: 13 Sentinels Aegis Rim which I’m very interested in and I can only play it in Japanese)

So now I follow my motivation in choosing games, and I just don’t play recommended “japanese games to learn japanese”.

It might be different for the first games you are playing when your level is around N4, but once you become a solid intermediate in the Language Learning Plateau, I definitely prefer to go for things that motivate me.

Sorry it was more of a personal statement than an answer to your question, I personally don’t use self made SRS since a long time ago, only Wanikani and Bunpro. (I honestly don’t know if this is a good idea, it worked for me better until reaching intermediate but maybe I would learn faster with personal SRS now? Difficult to say, it has a motivation cost in the easy-to-keep-on-streak/intensive learning balance of self-learning)

I hope this personal rules can help!

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#13

I wanted to play Ni No Kuni with Japanese Text and despite the settings telling me that I can change the subtitles language in the Playstation settings, nothing worked. You’re right about using things with animation as it will help understand things more.

I’ll just try to find a game that has audio like Ni No Kuni I guess.

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#14

I study for N1 by reading my “serious” materials, like novels, articles, whatever during the day and the evening, then last thing in the evening I just relax with a game or manga. Weirdly though, reading manga and reading game text is better for your listening than it is for studying for N1 読解 heh.

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#15

I think switching the language setting to Japanese for any game you might be playing can only ever be a good thing for practice. But I would give the same caution as I would to anyone trying to improve their Japanese through manga/anime, which is that video game japanese is not always useful japanese. If you have spent 60 hours roleplaying as an ancient dragon in the body of a prepubescent girl, and then try to reproduce those speech patterns and mannerisms at your local konbini, you’re going to sound faintly insane. If you fill your anki deck with seven hundred words for obscure medieval Japanese weaponry, then don’t expect to be richly rewarded for that effort once the N2 rolls around.

The only pokemon game I’ve tried to play in Japanese has been X/Y, which I personally found very frustrating because a) as a children’s game, it was very hiragana heavy, and b) learning the names of all the pokemon is a mission in itself

For N3/N2 level, I think the Phoenix Wright series is among the best choices you can make - the dialogue is contemporary, the setting is non-fantastical, the vocab is mostly applicable to daily life (particularly if you murder a lot of people), and it frequently alludes to Japanese culture. Most of all, by making you answer questions about what you’ve just read, it tests your understanding and stops you from progressing until you’ve worked it out. The best part is that because the dialogue is specifically designed to help you grasp the crucial elements of the story, it greatly assists foreign language learners. So, for example, the witness on the stand will say something about the body being under the statue, and then the main character will talk to himself and be like “did he just say that the body was under the statue”, and then there’ll be an option to talk to the side kick about the body being under the statue, etc etc. - the redundancy is mostly built in.

With something like Fire Emblem: Three Houses, as much as I love it, it’s entirely possible to learn what all the menu buttons do, and then skim or skip the dialogue entirely, which there is a big temptation to do if you’re tired after a long day at work.

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#16

Honestly, I think anything that gives you motivation to read is worth your time. Pokemon can be a little frustrating as you have to relearn names and attacks etc, but at least SwSh gives you the option of Japanese or /simple/ Japanese. Before then, I believe it’s just a tad too kana heavy to be super practical. I played SwSh with Japanese and found it perfectly easy enough to follow the story (because Pokemon is known for having rich and original storylines :face_with_hand_over_mouth:), but it does mean whenever my friends are talking about the new Pokemon or the characters, I have to whip Google out because apparently Leon couldn’t just be レオン. You might find you won’t learn too much, but it will get you reading and recognising grammar, and if it’s something you’ll be playing anyway it’s not a waste of time.

I second playing something heavy in context with cutscenes if you want something a bit heavier, but maybe I wouldn’t recommend Yakuza/RGG. Purely because you might not want ふざけんなお前 to seep into your vocabulary :upside_down_face: In all seriousness though, it’s useful as long as you bear in mind that it’s not what you’re gonna want to be shadowing. I would absolutely recommend it if you’re looking for a fantastic game franchise with some of the most likeable characters I’ve ever come across, so it’s worth your time in that regard.

I tried playing FFXIV in Japanese for a while and, whilst I can’t say I recommend it too much on account of the antiquated manner of speaking due to the setting… I can say doing things that I was familiar with (like Alchemist quests, because I have them all but memorised in English) was useful and fun for me. I actually want to redo it now I have more knowledge under my belt and can make more gains from it, haha.

Like Bapden said, I think it’s all about what you’re actually interested in. Forcing yourself to play something that you don’t really want to purely because you think it’ll be useful language-wise isn’t gonna do you a fat lot of good. It’ll just hit your motivation in the dangly parts. If you incorporate learning into the things you already want to do, or would do anyway outside of language learning, it makes it a whole lot more fun and you’ll stick to it way more.

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#17

This is completely incorrect.

This misinformation is unfortunately being perpetuated mostly by Japanese people who assume that other people would read manga and start speaking “korosu zo!” and “kisama!” when in reality this is nonsense.

People have enough thinking capacity to differentiate between different registers of speech.

The ONLY issue that could actually arise is choice of vocabulary. Since it’s a bit more difficult to realize what particular register of speech a particular vocabulary item belongs to unless you have encountered this particular item several times in different contexts. But even then, it is still a very minor issue if you continue consuming Japanese content.

Don’t let this nonsense stop you from consuming content you want and improve your japanese. ANY content is good. Even completely silly shounen manga where they speak using unrealistic japanese is still good for your language learning.

The rest will be unconsciously sorted by your brain and apply correct filtering to differentiate speech registers.

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#19

Why are you getting agressive? :slight_smile:
I simply shared my opinion in hopes that it could be useful for other people, as that point comes up quite often and many people are afraid that it would affect them, which is not the case at all.
If anyone is getting something in a twist - it’s you :slight_smile:

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#20

@Kuromaku @ulurujamman

OK I’m going to step in. As an outsider looking in (someone who doesn’t have much to do with anime, games, Pokemon, etc.) I think you’re both making fair comments (albeit somewhat strongly worded) and the only two comments that really shouldn’t have been made are the ones that mention getting various things in a twist, as I feel they go against the following community guidelines:

Be Agreeable, Even When You Disagree

You may wish to respond to something by disagreeing with it. That’s fine. But remember to criticize ideas, not people . Please avoid:

  • Ad hominem attacks
  • Responding to a post’s tone instead of its actual content

On top of that, the “BS” remark probably shouldn’t have been made but I think we’re all grown up enough to understand that it wasn’t used in the context it usually is.
Agree or disagree, although strongly worded, @Kuromaku 's first comment does not appear to violate the guidelines and should probably not have been reported (unless the person in question took particular offence to the use of “BS”)

Let’s start the conversation again (none of these “well he started it!” responses) and attack ideas rather than individuals.

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#21

I take offence at the use of the slur ‘retarded’, and this is the only reason why the post was formally reported. It’s not 1999 anymore, and this stuff isn’t that hard.

People can make their own judgments about whether the original post was in a civil tone. This is the last thing I have to say on this matter.

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#22

Can mods delete the entire conversation please?

I don’t want to deal with personal attacks towards my person like that from easily offended individuals. When there weren’t even any offense in the first place.

And @ulurujamman, if you can’t tolerate simple colloquial english, maybe you shouldn’t be on the internet in the first place.

Though, I do agree, that I could have worded my original message using more formal english without using colloquialisms. This is what I usually do. I guess in this case I was simply a bit enthusiastic about this particular subject :slight_smile:

Either way, I has since edited my original post if it makes you happy :slight_smile:

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#23

holy! what a rollercoaster this thread is :japanese_goblin:

and i’m still wondering if mangajin is ok or not :smiley:

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#24

You don’t say :slight_smile:

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#25

Also keep in mind the notion that “retarded” is a slur was fabricated by Barack Obama in a move to change the world “for the better” and benefit him politically. It is still used in formal medical contexts when used properly, and people have mixed opinions about its use as a slang term.

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#26

Keep in mind that, no, that isn’t even remotely correct

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#27

Personally, I absolutely despise the term and 100% consider it a slur. Nothing to do with Obama, everything to do with how the word is used by people. It’s 2020, there are better words to use than those which are inherently ableist. With that, thank you Kuromaku for removing it from the post - it’s appreciated.

But hey, let’s get back to the topic somehow.

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#28

@Kuromaku @ulurujamman @someone2020 @severian

This is not the place for this kind of discussion and it ends right now on this very post. If you wish to discuss the origins of certain words and whether or not they should be used in 2020 or in any other year, please do so in private messages. Whoever posts next, please bring the conversation back to the thread title.
Please do NOT respond with something like “OK this ends here but I’d just like to say…” as we have seen in previous messages - this will simply add fuel to the fire.
If you wish to say something further on the subject, again, the place for that is in a private message.
Also, to whoever keeps reporting people… we’re a better and more grown-up community than that. We can admit where we went wrong and move on without trying to get people banned or whatever happens when someone is flagged.
Debates are a great way of exchanging ideas with people with different opinions, so from now on please keep it that way.
I don’t particularly like coming down harshly on people but I always will if I have to. This is a great community with lots of great people so let’s keep it that way. This ends right now.
PS I have tagged the last few people who have posted, but this whole post isn’t going to be 100% relevant to all of you so if some of it doesn’t apply to what you posted, please don’t think this is fully aimed at you.

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#29

Thank you for saying this. I’m not sure what happened exactly but thank you.

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#30

Apologies for my contribution!

To get back to the topic at hand, visual novels have been highly recommended to me by friends who also study the language, if they’re your kind of thing. Since they’re text-based, it can take a while to slog through, but they tend to be pretty standard in terms of grammar/vocab usage depending on what the setting is. Often you can glean what’s happening with the CGs too, or pick it up from surrounding dialogue. They can be incredibly dull if it’s not your kind of medium though, they just about barely fit the category of “game” most times.

Of course, if your fave VN is Steins;Gate like mine is, and you’re someone who can barely understand anything even slightly scientific in English, pseudo or not… :pensive: I bought it for Switch here in Japan, thinking “Oh, I’ll be able to change the language!”, and now I’m getting my ass handed to me :face_with_hand_over_mouth:

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#31

Speaking about games - Konosuba mobile game is scheduled to release in about a week. And supposedly it includes a story mode and some interactive mode to talk with different characters.

From what I’ve seen in screenshots it doesn’t look too difficult :slight_smile:

I’m definitely going to give it a try!

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#32

I’ve never heard of this, what is the game about? Is it like an RPG?

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