Finished N5 Grammar - what's next?

Bunpro
#1

If you want a shorter read, just read the text in bold. Everything else is more context.
I just finished N5 Grammar here a few days ago and while I know I have not grasped every lesson well yet, I wasn’t sure what I should be doing next. My dream is to be able to carry a conversation in Japanese with locals. Realistically, that may be a 5 or 10 year timeline as I do not live in Japan. But I’m ok with that as I am seeing progress everyday.

So I’d been reading some older community posts here as well as blog posts on WaniKani. I have several questions. But first, where I’m at:

  1. WaniKani - Level 22. I started Jan 2023 and paused learning new things so I cold focus more on grammar on BunPro. Still doing daily reviews and realized I have forgotten a lot though have retained more than forgotten.
  2. BunPro - Level 30, finished N5 Grammar. Was doing daily reviews and added Cram sessions on lessons I can’t quite grasp. The cram helped a lot with making me progress. I had not been using Vocab on BunPro.

My questions:
Q1. I was reviewing grammar for a few days after completing N5 and had no new lessons at all. Turns out I had to add a deck. So I added N4. Have not started on it. Should I have started on N4 already?

Out of curiosity, I looked into JLPT exams and found out that they are only held once a year where I live. I had no intention of taking the exams but since it’s not until December, maybe I’ll take it. I tried the sample tests here: For Examinees: Let's Try Sample Questions! | JLPT Japanese-Language Proficiency Test
I think I did ok but I definitely had to repeat the audio many times or pause it several times to understand what was said.
Q2: I read somewhere that on JLPT exams, the person in charge may NOT replay the audio no matter how much you beg. How often is it played back - once?

My Deck for Vocab after syncing with WaniKani again today looks like this:

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Q3: Does this mean I still need to study a lot of Vocab to be able to pass the JLPT N5 exam?

Q4: This made me look into Vocab in BunPro. At first I was going to check my level via Cram. But then I figured I could do Lessons so that I can mark as Mastered as I go. But yikes, all of a sudden I have 300+ Review items. The lessons and reviews made some things obvious to me though:
a. WaniKani reviews ask for English meaning and Hiragana. But presented with the English in BunPro, I couldn’t recall some of the Japanese even though I know I know it already.
b. Same thing with the fill in the blanks in sentences.

So… How do I remove a deck? LOL.

Q5: I plan to read more and intend to purchase one or all of these when I’m in Japan end of June:

Others in this community also pointed out

I already feel like learning Nihongo is a part-time job as I spend 1-2 hours on it everyday. So the question is: What should I do next?

Oh, I just saw that BunPro has Grammar Reading Practice. Anyone use find these useful?

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#2

To chime in with my thoughts:

Q1: I think it’s fine to move on to N4 if you’re comfortable with the number of reviews you’re getting on a daily basis.

Q2: As far as I know, they never do this. For what it’s worth, that makes it equally harder for everyone taking the test…so there’s that.

Q3: I took and passed N5 and N4. Actually, the old vocab decks floating around on Anki and whatnot very closely match the vocab on the real tests. The story is that the old JLPT used to have designated vocab lists back in 2010 or so, and the new tests do not. While many people will tell you “there are no official vocab lists”, the test makers very evidently haven’t changed the vocab much, at least for those two levels. So N5 is something like 700, 800 words.

Q4: Just my opinion, 300+ reviews is OK to push through if its stuff you added and already are pretty comfortable with. That review load will work its way down over a couple days probably. For reference I’ve come back from vacation (didn’t use vacation mode) to have like over 1k reviews, and over several days, just powered through them.

Q5: All of those options are good. At the N5 level, I think just do what you’re comfortable with. Not much native content is going to be understandable yet - maybe look for beginner Japanese videos on YouTube? That can be a good way to practice listening.

4 Likes
#3

You should definitely use kamesame for reverse wanikani though. I set my level to master or above so it does not interfere with wanikani but I also practice from english → japanese way.

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#4

Thank you for this, it’s going to be very helpful!

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#5

Thank you, @Curnan2 and @Enerccio!

Re: “At the N5 level, I think just do what you’re comfortable with. Not much native content is going to be understandable yet”
Good to know. I was also reading the responses over in the other thread about what to prioritize and someone provided a link about 80% comprehension. So I think I’ll actually try to start using the Reading Practice here in Bunpro because it will at least be stuff I should be able to read and will help reinforce the Grammar lessons.

Re: JLPT N5 Exam. Registration is still in Sept so I may reassess then. Right now I think I will just reduce the number of new lessons in WaniKani and Bunpro so that I can try to clear my Vocab reviews here.

Re: kamesame. First time I’ve heard of that. I will have to park that for now and look into it again later.

Thanks so much for the feedback!

#6

Re the N5 exam - I passed last year…just - i took it too early having not yet finished みんなの本語 1. When it came to the listening exercises I was pretty much guessing - they do indeed only play it once…so my advice would be practice listening as much as possible!

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#7

Fast-forwarded through the 43 minute video about kamesame here:

My first impression yesterday was it’s cool but oh no, another thing I have to pay for. Glad to know it’s FREE.
@enerccio, I’m wondering now how it compares to the Vocab deck here in Bunpro. With the little amount of reviews I’ve done on Vocab here so far, I already ended up making ‘mistakes’ because the definition used in WaniKani wasn’t exactly the same as in Bunpro. Just curious - do you use the Vocab decks in Bunpro at all?
Also, what do you mean when you set your level to Master and above, I mean why? Where can you do that? What level were you at on WaniKani when you started Kamesame? Then which list did you start learning from? (See EDIT1 below)
And one more thing: I already have the Japanese IME installed on Windows. But I still can’t enter hiragana in Kamesame. I’ve used Alt ~ and Alt + Not sure what I’m doing wrong.
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EDIT1: I realized my error now. I should have gone to the “Study WaniKani items” instead of the Study from a List. Still can’t type Japanese though. I’m studying anyway by just thinking of the answer and either hitting Skip if I know it or Fail if I don’t.

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#9

I’ll cherry pick the easy one:

Go to Decks
Click on the deck
Upper right → Deck Settings button
Toggle off “Actively Studying”

–
I did N5 with only wanikani and bunpro N5 lessons. You will be fine. You’ll think the written sections are ridiculously easy. And you will get killed on the listening section. I managed to pass, but I was convinced I failed until the scores came out. It was probably my very high scores in the other sections that saved me, all I had to do was get the minimum section score in listening.

I would recommend before the test, do any random ‘N5 vocabulary’ list on the internet, not SRS, just free-style. It’s not that many things. And do something involving listening on YouTube, lots of it. There are a lot of “N5/N4 simple conversation” youtube videos.

2 Likes
#10

Thanks @ctmf ! DId you do both Grammar and Vocab on Bunpro?

#11

No I just did grammar (this was several years ago). They didn’t have vocabulary yet, and now even the grammar is more fully explained, way better than it used to be.

I don’t think I’d attempt to brute-force memorize a LONG list of vocabulary without a helper system, but N5 was manageable.

1 Like
#12

For talking to people you definatly need to work on your listening.
I put the CD that came with my textbook in my car CD player. As you haven’t been learning with a textbook, my current strategy of using anki is probably a better fit.

Download an anki deck and change the reviws from reading to listening by changing the card template to
Front is:
{{Audio}}

Back is:

{{furigana:Reading}}

{{#Meaning}}{{hint:Meaning}}{{/Meaning}}

in my deck
audio is the audio of the sentence
furigana:Reading has the sentence in kanji with furigana above
{{#Meaning}}{{hint:Meaning}}{{/Meaning}} means if you click the word meaning you can see the definition. I have it hidden by default so I read the japanese sentence before the deffentition
Q1 if you like learning grammar than sure, but I think your better off working on listening and vocab if your goal is conversation
Q2 yeah, the audio is only once.
Q3 maybe? you didn’t notice a weak vocab in the practice test so you might be fine.
Q4 On the screen shot for Q3, you have the ablity to study just n5 vocab. Each day study N5 vocab and grammar through this screen. and I would leave the other words in till I get around to them. You do mostly know them from wanikani

I do recomend studying more vocab to make Japanese friends. I recomend learning some katakana words. Once you have a feel for them you got an easy method to talk awkardly.

in kids books like readers and on the n5 there is no kanji, only hiragana. I skipped to manga which has furigana so I could use kanji knowlage. You can change your review type to ‘translation’ or ‘reading’ so you can use the kanji to guide you.

Q5
I also liked watching old enough はじめておつかい which is currently on Netflix when I was around your level. I recomend reading the sentence out loud. I got the advice to shadow, but It’s really hard

Last week I struggled with IME. Right click IME, settings (the gear), then customize keys and touch, your options are ctrl space or shift space. or keys that aren’t on an american keyboard
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#13

I use bunpro n5 so far and it is not bad.

1 Like
#14

Thanks so much, @Noxsora !
I have yet to download any Anki deck. Trying to find the sweet spot for my workload right now. But yes, I love はじめておつかい!!! So cute!

#15

It’s been a year and I looked at my original post. I am happy to say that I have met some of my goals (passed N5) and still continuing with my studies. Here’s a list of what I’m doing and maybe someone at the same level can use these tools too.

  • WaniKani and BunPro (Grammar) reviews are still daily activities. I don’t go on vacation mode even on vacation as I ended up forgetting a lot.
  • I have an online Nihongo tutor (1x/week) who’s helping me with the speaking and listening as we go through grammar in Genki II. So I only add new grammar in BunPro once I am studying it in Genki. I also watch Tokini Andy’s video for the same Genki II Lesson as he explains it better and he sometimes has additional useful info too. BTW, I skipped Lessons 19 and 20 for now because they deal with the very polite terms which was just too much for my brain when I haven’t mastered the basic grammar.
  • I am reading Yotsuba& using this: よつばと! - Bilingual Manga
    as I couldn’t find a copy in any of the bookstore while I was in Naha. Then I watch the comprehensible input video of Iroiro Nihongo https://youtu.be/Xe8AV2VcGoE?feature=shared
    as he’s great with explaining things. My biggest issue is understanding (more like RECOGNIZING) the meaning of the furigana I’m seeing when I know it in Kanji because of WaniKani.
  • For more listening practice, I’ve created an account with Comprehensible Input Japanese
    https://cijapanese.com
    I’m still using the free videos as I just started.
  • For reading, I bought Doraemon Vol 1 and can understand more now than last year. But I am enjoying にゃんにゃん探偵団 (Volume 1) more because the language isn’t so slang/childish AND the font is not miniscule. LOL. There was a book club for にゃんにゃん in WK and I’ll check it out but I may not end up sticking with it.
    にゃんにゃん - Kitty Detectives - Vol. 1 - Book Clubs - WaniKani Community
  • During Covid, I wrote down the Japanese dialogue of Samurai Gourmet (Netflix). I recently reread the first episode’s dialogue and realize I understand more now. So I rewatched my favorite episodes (1 and 3) in Japanese. It’s still very fast and I don’t catch everything. I may or may not rewatch the other episodes of that show or the anime From Me To You. But I recommend those 2 shows.

What’s next:

  • I absolutely need to get better at CONJUGATION 活用 - hypothetical, passive, potential, etc. Good thing I was looking through my long list of (webpage) bookmarks and remembered these:
    Don's Japanese Conjugation Drill
    Random Verb Conjugation Practice
    So I’ll try to practice more.
  • Continue with Comprehensible Input videos
  • Read more regularly - with the books I have and NHK News Easy.
  • Practice speaking more. Most likely with my sensei and also repeating what’s said in the CIJ videos.
  • I may do the N4 Test but it’s not a requirement. Honestly, the passing score is so low it’s shocking. As a nerd, it’s too low. But I’m not the one making the rules. It also doesn’t mean I can speak well enough. I mean I’m definitely better than last year but I default to basic sentences still. However, I may still take it because it’s still an objective milestone.
  • EDIT: Just saw this in another thread: practical reading practice of signs around Japan
    https://youtube.com/@nihongosigns?si=4p9Cqsk3ZNZFBM3B

I do want to thank everyone who has recommended any of the tools I’m using now. It’s because of the great community here in BunPro that I even found out about these tihngs. THANK YOU and let me know if there’s anything else you recommend.

11 Likes
#16

Congrats on your progress and persistence!

My goal is the same as yours, conversing with Japanese folks.

Below are a few notes based on my experience over the years. They may or may not resonate with you, but just wanted to offer a summary of what has worked for me. This is also just for casual encounters, not a workplace environment.

・Have an outline of a ごしょうかい in your mind for use in conversation to explore points of shared interest. Practice this so you can articulate your thoughts smoothly. And continue to update it as your life progresses.

・Learn vocab for your areas of interest

・Watch native Japanese YouTube content in your areas of interest

・Most importantly; practice, practice, practice. The more you speak, the more it will become second nature. Do not go a long stretch of time without practicing. At a minimum, have a conversation with yourself out loud. Perhaps practice your ごしょうかい and turn it into a mock conversation.

・Don’t feel bad if you revert to basic Japanese grammar structures. I often revert to basic Japanese since I can speak it more quickly without thinking. Although I try to incorporate new grammars into my speech, for the most part its mainly useful for me in listening comprehension.

・Don’t feel bad if you mess up, its always a learning moment and it becomes a mistake you hopefully wont make again. In my experience, people have always helped by gently correcting me or asking clarifying questions. I think most people are just happy that a foreigner is trying to learn Japanese.

・Get used to the flow of conversations and usage of appropriate aisatsu (both verbal and non-verbal)

・Practice with as many people as possible since people speak with different speeds, dialects, slang, etc.

・Practice at local meetups if available (usually free)

・Practice at local izakayas if available and if staffed/frequented by Japanese. Sit at the counter. Offer the staff-san a drink. Likewise, if you are able to strike up a conversation with a fellow patron, offer them a drink as well. (associated cost)

・Practice with various conversation tutors on italki if possible (associated cost)

・Practice with people on HelloTalk (make sure to explicitly state in your profile that you are not looking for a relationship to avoid weirdos) (free)

・And the most obvious one, try to visit Japan when you are able to and completely immerse yourself in the culture and speaking as much as possible.

When I have a great conversation, it is the biggest motivator for my continued studies.

Best of luck in your language learning journey and I hope you are able to achieve your goals.

1 Like
#17

For conjugation practice, I use an app called “Japanese conjugation city”. It’s £1 on the App Store but you can set it to drill only conjugation patterns you have learnt and use it for adjectives and verbs.

I do mine from dictionary form to all forms that I have studied at N5 and N4 level, but you can do it from other forms (such as て to ない for example).

I don’t use it to learn verbs and adjectives, I use it to drill the patterns.

Hope this helps and good luck on your study journey :slight_smile:

3 Likes
#18

THANK YOU SO MUCH for the extensive list! Great tips on the ごしょうかい and aisatsu. I hadn’t thought of that but it is a great tool to break the ice. :grinning_face_with_smiling_eyes:

#19

Awesome, tip! THANK YOU SO MUCH!

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#20

Hi. Hope it’s not a bother to ask here, since I’m in a similar situation and I’d rather no create a new thread for it. Sorry if there’s anything worded weirdly, English isn’t my first language and I haven’t had my coffee yet.

I finished the N5 Grammar deck just yesterday. I haven’t mastered everything, far from it, but since I plan on taking the N4 exam in December, I want to start drilling the N4 Grammar deck. The thing is, I plan on learning three new items a day, I did six items a day for the N5. Is this a good pace or should I add a few more items?

My main concern is the vocabulary. I have an easier time learning vocabulary than learning grammar, but even though I learn twenty new items a day (and having taken a few vacation mode days) I am only 400 out of 1100 items into the N5 Vocab deck.

My question then is, given my situation -that is taking the N4 exam in December- should I start learning the N4 Vocab right away? Should I instead reduce the learning pace for the N5 to ten items a day and add ten N4 items so there’s a balance?

Bunpro N5 / N4 pace for the JLPT