Frustration is taking over …

Japanese
#21

seems like you are doing well enough. I’ve been studying for two years and consistently say things wrong as well despite talking in japanese literally every day. it’s going to take a while to fully understand things.
Some advice I have, and something I use up and through this day is to write down the grammar points in an explanitory way. Like explain them to people, maybe on italki blog about how to use a grammar point, similar to bunpro’s explaination. Of course, no plagairism, but putting it in your own words-summarization- is how to really cement a point into your head.
As for asking your gf for advice, to counter my friend up there, once you have sufficient kowledge in n4/n5 generally the others translate into something similar. so if you understand a more basic point or word, she should be able to help. ofcourse, do not ask 50 questions in a row or anything. she ain’t your tutor.

Another thing, I find childrens books harder than real books. I’m currently reading through 恐怖コレクター and it’s really good with n4 knowledge. I also find english translated books, like harry potter or CS lewis’s Lion witch and wardrobe series to be realtively easy reads as well, compared to children’s books.

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#22

Also my biggest advice is to not compare yourself to anyone. Everyone learns at different rates and has different experiences with foreign languages which contributes to their learning speed. You’re going to hear a lot of “You should be doing X by now…”, “At your level you should understand X…”, “I got to N2 in a single summer…” etc.

Just practice. It doesn’t matter how far along anyone else is. It doesn’t matter how quickly they learned. Just practice. Practice everyday.

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#23

Though I occasionally get frustrated, I personally don’t see how my enjoyment for learning Japanese could ever be overtaken by frustration. Therefore, my advice, Senpai, is to adapt your study methods to be more enjoyable. This might entail setting more reasonable expectations for your progress as others above have mentioned, so that you can appreciate that you are getting a satisfactory reward for your efforts.

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#24

Wow, thanks guys this is a really great community, a lot of good advice and nice vibes from everyone :slight_smile:

Don’t get me wrong, of course, I see my results day by day, and I love studying every day it keeps me motivated and alive (I always enjoy studying new stuff on the side and if wasn’t Japanese it would be something else).
I’m happy when random people talk with me in Isakaya and I am able to communicate with them despite all of the mistakes and a couple of hiboru :joy:
I go around Tokyo trying to use as much I can of my knowledge, reading signs, memorising stops, asking for informations, and talking in cafes all in the best way I can.
Also, my goal is just to bring all of my skills (listening, kanji, speaking, reading) to the same level without prioritising any in particular.

I’m just thinking probably my frustration comes from not being able to read or acquire information in a more passive way as people do when they become comfortable in a certain language. Probably I expected after 1 or 2 years to be able to struggle less and just learn on the way.
But yeah I know people who are very fluent and they live here just say, they start to really speak after 3/4 y of living and studying, but I didn’t want to believe them 🫠
But as everybody confirms is normal, and I should just follow the flow and not overthink too much.

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#25

I know this should be just an indicator, I never take it into consideration too much because I thought was more related to the JLPT test than just studying, but if I take a look into it I already know 500 kanji and more than 2500, + more stuff I get from involuntary source, but I’m still on n4 grammar stuck :sweat_smile: that means I’m leaving grammar behind my study?

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#26

2500 words is around n4 level as well. the kanji there is around n3 level. you should be fine overall. that’s far better balance than you would see on wanikani forums. lol

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#27

N4 has some points that even now after weeks I been studying, continuously making mistakes and reading over and over the same description, still make no sense of how to use it, and this is what made me write this post 🫠 also I got confuse because they are super similar to each other.

About Cure Dolly I watched the first 10 videos after I saw people’s advice in your post (happy to know n3 feels easier :rofl:) but I probably missed something…because first I found it extremely difficult to listen to her without watching the video and be focused on it, sounds like she’s eating oranges while talking, and than I got it some stuff like “が” always present in a sentence, do make sense and make it easier to understand some sentence structure, but I wasn’t able to apply to anything atm.
But I’m planning to finish at least the base series :slight_smile:

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#28

Nihongo mori is also a pretty good grammar resource. It’s in Japanese and usually has subtitles to help with listening comprehension.

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#29

Have you tried using the cram feature? You can specifically practice the grammar points you have trouble with.

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#30

Ahahah what do you mean better than the WK forum?
I wrote here because I feel like people here have a bigger view of studying Japanese, I often see posts on the WK forum where people share crazy ideas, like “I wanna just watch anime so I just listen every day” (which doesn’t work, I have been watching anime for 20 years in Japanese and I never acquired anything🤣) or “I wanna study all kanji first in one year” and I don’t feel that kind of strict thinking get along with my own way of study.

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#31

Yes I use it often when I really can’t stick it into my mind and it helps a lot, but after the srs go forward I will keep forgetting after a while.
I know I don’t need to master everything some stuff will just get natural in my mind at the right time.
Just wonder when this will happen 🥲

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#32

so when it comes to that, what I notice is just studying it a bit beforehand, finding it randomly in nature, and then looking it up again typically gets my vocab or grammar really cemented.

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#33

Possibly so, quite common for people who focus on Wanikani (“I reached level 60, time for N4!” type posts come to mind), but also consider that there are levels to “knowing” words and kanji and probably you don’t have an equal grasp of all those items. In my experience my passive vocabulary is about twice as large as my active vocabulary pretty consistently and within my active vocabulary maybe only half again can I use easily in any context whilst the other half I can only use in limited contexts or only after a little effort. I would say my passive vocabulary is 15-20k and my active is 7.5-10k, for reference. Speaking is still pretty difficult. I would need a passive vocabulary of 40-50k to read without issues and an active vocabulary of 20-30k to speak without issues, I think. The numbers listed for JLPT pass rates are passive vocab sizes (as there is no output on the test) and they are the minimum amount need to pass. As I said above, passing is not the same as being able to easily understand and use everything at that level. Regardless, actively reading and listening more will help massively with grammar (and everything else).

I’m glad you’re getting lots of nice responses and ideas in this thread - good luck!

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#34

That’s exactly what I do! I usually study vocabulary a bit ahead with SRS a little bit before, I need to master all of it but just be familiar with it, then when I go through grammar and reading makes my life easier.
Also, do u think at this stage is worth just going behind and redoing all N5? Maybe with a different book? Just a quick read and make sure everything is organised in my head. Or just keep going forward?

#35

You will always be reviewing n5 stuff. every level of grammar builds off n5, so I dont think you need to concern youself with going back unless you REALLY feel like you haven’t a clue how to use “です”

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#36

This makes sense completely, thanks for the explanation, I do see the point of a bigger vocabulary helping understand sentences easily. And probably helps others expect of learning, like some grammar points are just words and if u already know the word job done. Same with kanji or vice-versa, kanji helps memorize and visualise the world much easier, but also knowing the word helps in remembering the kanji easier.
Passive and known words are very key points as well, when I speak I can rarely remember words I don’t use often. But if someone says that specific word my brain light turns on :sweat_smile:

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#37

Most people think youre just frustrated at the beginning and once you improve, everything gets better.

No.

You actually get used to it being frustrated. Its like eating spicy food on a regular basis, the spice is still there, even if it doesnt seem so. Forged by bitterness, sweat and blood to get humbled, one shall develope and ascent his character for sake of the noble goal of seeking knowledge, and thus a greater human can be reborn out of the ashes of the once manifested misery.

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#38

I also find that the level of frustration peaks in the middle. When you first start out, you make very clearly visible progress very quickly, since everything is new, which is quite satisfying and motivating.

But as you go beyond the absolute pure basics, there’s a very long stretch where you only make very small incremental progress despite not being able to use the language very well, so on the one hand consuming any kind of content is very mentally taxing, and on the other it feels like you’re barely improving, since each step forward is so small compared to what you already know.

Then in the later stages you reach a point of critical mass where you’re able to understand the majority of most content you’re interested in with relatively little effort and the stuff you still don’t know are fairly obscure details that normally don’t impede your general understanding to a huge extent. You’re still only making very small incremental steps forward, but it’s not as big of a deal because at this point you’re able to enjoy using the language much more than before, so it’s not as taxing as it used to be.

But, sadly, that middle phase is very long, and especially for a language like Japanese, which is especially difficult for learners coming from Germanic or Romance languages. I do find that it helps somewhat to be aware of this phenomenon though, so you don’t set unrealistic expectations on what your rate of improvement should be, based on what you experienced in the beginning.

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#39

I’m really happy to see how supportive the community is here and it seems like you’re getting a ton of great advice! Hopefully I can add to it a bit.

I like to approach learning a language with thought that there are two types of learning: Active and Passive. Active learning is doing the stuff you’ve been doing so far, studying X amount of hours per day, using various resources for grammar, reading, etc. It seems like you’ve really got a handle on this, maybe even too much so (depends on the person).

You kinda hinted at it yourself, but it may be a good idea to change up the ratio of how much active and passive learning you’re doing. There are many ways you can do this, and it seems you’re in a better position than many. Try to continue to immerse yourself in the language, but don’t worry too much about what you can’t understand and try to instead just let what you can understand stick with you. Reward yourself for your succes rather than punish yourself for your failure.

I took this mentality from video games (specifically fighters) and learned it did wonders for me in any situation that involves learning. I can practice a new grammar point (combo) all day, but when the time comes to use it, I rarely can on the first chance. But rather than be disappointed, I try to think, ‘Oh hey, I know how I can respond to that next time’ or ‘I want to know how to respond to that for next time’. There will always be another opportunity to use what you’ve learned, and over time (yes it will take time no matter what), it’ll become second nature. Kinda like SRS in real life scenarios huh. :yum:

At the end of the day, just like working out at the gym, sometimes we need to give our brain a little time to rest to avoid burnout. And switching your Active to Passive learning ratio temporarily could help with that. Either way, you’re doing great and don’t forget that.

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#40

Just 1 year ? Man, frustration like this is totally normal. I think Japanese is way harder than we all think.

You are already waay ahead of many people. You have a Japanese girlfriend + lived in Japan. What you need now is just to continue doing what you’re doing.

Maybe add an online tutor. I think that helps a lot. A lot of people want to rely too much on wanikani and bunpro. I think these should be secondary to actual lessons and a textbook to get the basics.

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