Here we have gifted Japanese person taking JLPT and not being able to get 100% mark. I believe he claims he got 290/300 on national exams before entering Uni where average is 120. And he give his opinions after. Most what I think about JLPT is base on this video alone.
I’d like to revisit this for a moment…
Does anyone actually know how the officials decided which grammar goes into which level? Why did officials adopt this philosophy (the JLPT sequence)?
Historical reasons, I think?
Why most of the world is driving on right side when left has be proven to be better for many reasons? Because there is no motivation and will to change it.
I was looking on a few website and there is nothing about their methodology so I assume it is nothing they are proud of…
Why you are interested? Maybe it will be easier to find having that piece of information.
Edit:
They even put straight up lies on their website…
https://www.jlpt.jp/e/about/points.html
0_o
Or have they added practical part?
https://www.jlpt.jp/e/about/levelsummary.html
that may help?
This look like a hint:
Notice like there is nothing about doing it in “good way”, help to give structurer for Japanese learner or anything like that. They have one goal: to be big.
Very nice out of context quote. I don’t know how you could interpret it like that if you look at the whole thing.
“Note that the JLPT does not include sections to measure speaking or writing proficiency directly.”
I had some Japanese friends trying N1 in a bar while drinking just for fun. Some questions are stupid especially in the reading but native speaker would pass it like a charm (maybe not get 180/180 though).
Actually on the official website they say that not all the questions on test are counted towards the score as well -> some are just research for JLPT committee to see how well people can answer those depending on their level and score on the test and help them come up with future test questions.
Anyway, JLPT is a bit like TOEIC that Japanese people love to take, (TOEFL is somewhat better but even then it is not a real evaluation of ones English speaking ability) - people who pass it supposed to be able to read almost anything in Japanese and understand most of it and also understand spoken Japanese.
As for the grammar I feel like N1 is basically a collection of all random things that didn’t make it into other levels. But also for other levels I think for a long time there is no official grammar list and it’s up to people on the committee to put into the questions whatever they want or feel like every 6 months.
People who tend to read resources intended for native speakers will encounter all grammar anyway, N2 or N3 grammar probably more often than N1 grammar but everything depends on which resources are we talking about. If the goal is to feed adult learners with grammar points in certain order to make sure they can start communicate in Japanese asap then it might makes sense (for an average learner) to keep most of N1 topics for the end of the studying.
“ability to use the knowledge in actual communication.” No such thing in JLPT.
@MacFinch They never say that they test it though. They say it’s important, that’s all. They specifically say that they test it through Vocab/Grammar + Reading + Listening without quizzing output because it’s machine-scored.
The JLPT is good for what it is. A milestone to check off, because if your Japanese is good, you’ll pass the N3 even if you didn’t specifically study to pass it.
As long as you don’t go in expecting it to be some perfecture measure of your Japanese and an ideal guideline towards studying Japanese, you’re fine.
"The JLPT places importance not only on "
That does not equal to they’re testing it directly.
At very least dishonest and misleading.
How is it misleading if they make it very clear in the next couple lines that they do not test output ?
Implying that they somehow they take into an account “ability to use the knowledge in actual communication.” since it is number 2 most important thing, when they are clearly not?
I don’t see why you are ready to defend that. I own 2 macbooks, i had 5 iphone. Does it mean I have to pretend apple business conduct is most moral and honest? It clearly not.
There is no link between “i use there service” - > “they have perfect business ethical code”
But anyway: that’s the least important bad thing about that test. Please challenge more important point and we can have normal discussion.
If that is such a big problem, then let’s blame my english for it. It is not that important to me.
Yeah, I think you’re interpreting this the wrong way.
What I think they’re saying is “Testing output is important to us, so we’re testing it indirectly through testing your understanding of grammar because that’s the best thing we can do with machine-scoring”
I’m not sure how you came to the conclusion that I’m defending the JLPT because I used it
I’d like to think I’m defending it because I believe you’re wrong in how you’re interpreting what they’re saying.
@xBl4ck @MacFinch
Your comments are straying off-topic. Could you refrain or open a separate thread/PM? Thank you.
You won. I lost.
Any other more important point?
Please do, would speed up reading manga a lot probably
I agree with you but the thing I don’t really understand about the JLPT is the way they often design the questions for the reading sections. I think the focus should be on whether you understand the Japanese or not, and not on your ability to make various kinds of subjective judgement calls. If there is a question you might get wrong even if you understand all of the Japanese just because you made a slightly different judgement call than the test makers or your way of thinking was sightly different, then it’s a poorly designed question in my opinion.
In particular, they seem really inconsistent with how strict they are with regard to epistemology. Meaning, sometimes they will say ‘this is safe to assume from context because it’s probably true even though it’s not definitely true’ and sometimes they will say ‘no you can’t just assume that, even if it’s very likely from the context, it needs to be explicitly stated its true’.
That’s why statement like:
“It is important to us” [commonly known facts] “therefore” [our methodology known to not try to test it and being polar opposite to other methodologies design to do so]
Are at very least white lies to me. It is judgement call - our my bad English if somebody want to think so. That’s why I provided a link. Having debate over it strange since judgement calls are full of bias. I found it interesting and relevant they “agree” that common sense knowledge about what this kind of test should test, is not wrong in their view. Different story if they would make their case against it.
But having debate over it seems to be pointless - off-topic.
BTW: I am fully aware you are speaking on something else and you seems to disagree with my judgment call. Not my point though I agree with your opinion on JLPT. I try to make a statement about 2 things at once : >
I’d read it!