Prep for JLPN1: 6 months on Bunpro?

Bunpro
#21

You have problems with your counter-arguments:

  1. Modern tools make it easier, accelerating your calendar time, but not necessarily the hours spent studying – 2hrs/day over 5 days or 10hrs in one day is still 10hrs. Also, those FSI hours are classroom hours – your personal study time is longer than that.
  2. That is just an example of a really bad class. I took Japanese class in college and they went through all hiragana in one week (5 hrs) and all katakana the next week (5 hrs).
  3. The research data always contains a range of hours that correspond to a range of individual talents, so your talent is included. Besides, the point is not the exact hours, but that those hours are far more than for other languages. The hours show that it’s difficult for people who are speakers of western languages. The next easier language category is half the hours, 1100 hrs.

I’m also reacting to your overall tone which seems to be “sure, it takes time, but it can’t be that hard”. This is a premature attitude. Especially for this thread which is about trying to pass JLPT N1 in one year. (Becoming conversational takes less time.)

In life, we all find ways to be successful in one way or another. However, it’s a trap to believe that because you were successful once before, that all future experiences will follow the same pattern or will require the same effort. It’s useful to be a humble learner.

Don’t take my word for it. There’s an entire Japanese learning community here, with a range of talents and a range of experiences. You can ask them about how hard it really is.

9 Likes
#22

Paper Flashcards: around since the 19th century.
Leitner System: 1970. (Basic SRS system)
Super Memo: 1985. (the first SRS software, afaik)
Genki First Edition: 1999
Anki: 2006.
Self-study: Around since centuries.

JLPT Study Hour Comparison Data 2010-2015

I’m not gonna pretend the data is exact. There is a range of 1800 hours in there. That’s ±23%. But, you know, we’re not suddenly super humans that can manage feats that were all but impossible 10 years ago.

2 Likes
#23

I hope you are aware it is simple impossible that people differ only by 23%. It does not happen in any other activity we are involving our self in.

I can give you example with different language: Esperanto. I was quite proud of myself that within one month I got basically fluent in this language in high school. It is very simple and elegant language created to be easy. But then I learn that Leo Tolstoy manage to do it 2 (a repeat: two) hours. But he probably got IQ over 170, has super humane memory, and knew 16 language before that. Esperanto is easy, but not that easy to make it possible for normal human being to learn it in 2h.

Btw i don’t know why you have listed Genki as good resource. Especially when we are speaking about JLPT which does not really test you ability to output Japanese.

And it would like to notice one thing: Lorenswan was speaking about 2 years time line. Which is not unreasonable if you focus on learning to pass test, not to be fluent in Japanese.

Edit: I never made a claim about how long it has to take to pass n1 or become fluent. :hugs: I just pointed out that this numbers means nothing. :sweat_smile:

#24

Just going to point out from the start: Your and my understanding of fluency is likely very different. Not a critique, it’s just not a solid term.

I don’t know the language, but I’m gonna call bullshit on that unless you have some very solid references :slight_smile:

I never even argued about different people needing different time investments. Ofc you’re going to have an easier time learning Japanese if you’re fluent in Chinese and Korean already.

I listed Genki because you need study material. Afaik, Genki was one of the first widely available textbooks that is decent for Japanese self study.

2 years full time obviously isn’t unreasonable. But that’s not what we talked about. With the assumptions we could make from his post, we talked about one year to get from 0 in grammar, listening and probably reading to N1 and we called it unreasonable if not done full time and very hard even if done full time.

No. The data does mean something. It’s statistical data. You need to know where it came from and which limitations it has, so you can interpret it properly. That’s called Data Literacy.

I don’t mean to be rude when I say this, maybe a little, but to me you seem like someone that’s simply at the start of the Dunning-Kruger curve.

6 Likes
#25

You should check out Esperanto. You will be surprise how easy it is. It got very nice grammar and word formation system. You need about 500-1500 root to learn to be able to create tens of billions of words. They are like kanji but better. :smiley:

By fluent I meant: being able to listen, speak, write, and read at native speed without dictionary. But not necessary without any mistakes. I do mistakes even in my native language.

No worries. I am not going to cry :joy: I am surprise you didn’t heard about Esperanto though. Very early on the Dunning-Kruger curve when it comes to linguistic and knowledge how language acquisition works? Not being rude, just making us even :smiling_face_with_three_hearts:

That exactly the problem. People show number assuming they mean something important in every given context. Even if it was proven that on average you need million hours to learn Japanese that does not prove nobody can do it in let say half of that. That is no how statistics works. I don’t claim this curve is govern by Pareto distribution but there for sure is a curve. And you need to take into account that most interesting data point probably are not available due to survivorship bias.

Btw: i don’t mind this kind of discussion at all, but we will make other people uneasy if we continue :sweat:

4 Likes
#26

@xBl4ck @MacFinch

Guys/ladies. I think you are scaring the TS off. No need to get all academic about it…

7 Likes
#27

We took it to pm already :relaxed:

1 Like
#28

Well I went from zero to Level 30 on WaniKanI in less than a year (8 months) which includes all of JLPN5,4, & 3. I was surprised at how much material (all the vocabulary and sample sentences) were used on Bunpro.

What do you think would be a reasonable pace?

And no, I don’t study Japanese full time as I also study Russian, French and Korean, but I find Japanese does take up a large chunk of my time every day… 2 hour minimum.

1 Like
#29

Challenge accepted

#30

No seriously. I have no idea how someone could possibly finish wanikani…60 Levels…JLPN5-1 material included in just over one single year. I have a decent memory and shifting my goal to DOUBLE that time has been like a knife at my throat every single day. Usually I average one Level every 7-8 days, but for the second year and second half (I got to Level 30 in 8 months) I think every ten days is way more reasonable. If the exam is only available in December and July, completing Wanikani by December 2021 is still totally reasonable, but maybe taking the exam in July 2022 is the best course of action. I don’t like adding six months time, but I have other academic coursework I want to start taking in the spring and I’d like to play with my reading and writing from Wanikani and chill at Level 60, burning all the material to memory over an extended time frame.

But what is a reasonable pace I should be going for learning grammar with Bunpro? A lesson a day? A lesson a week? What is the average pace? Unlike Kanji and vocabulary I can’t create mnemonics to cement this stuff to memory, just practice practice practice. Already I feel like I’m moving too fast and I think I’ll reset the program. Arghhh.

1 Like
#31

Lets see here… English, French, Russian, learning Japanese and I just learned how to read and write Korean in less than a month…(for karaoke purposes of course) But Korean isnt going to get much more traction than that.

But no, I am not “gifted” in languages. I just have good study techniques and I’m competitive AF.

My husband became a Chess Master in less than a year and speaks multiple languages as well. You could say I’m trying to outdo that…

No rush. I just prefer to set goals. And about marathons? I ran a half marathon one time just to see if I could do it. My Nike Run Club buddy Kick Bukowski dared me. So I posted my stats saying “I just ran 14 miles Just For Kicks” No training, no nothing, just a U.S. Army Airborne Veteran who stayed in shape and had a headlamp.

The point is, set a goal, try to achieve it. Even if you think its impossible.

Another example. I’m taking a hip hop class because I suck at popping, locking, breakdancing. I joked how I’m training for the 2024 Summer Olympics. But am I really? I’m getting better at my headstands and handstands. Whats that head spinny thing called again? Maybe I could one day do that. LOL.

3 Likes
#32

Honestly I wish I had your confidence in at least one thing in my life :pray:

11 Likes
#33

Honestly, it’s pretty hard to extrapolate from my experience towards how long you might need. I think if you’re putting 2h+/day active study and already have your study routine figured out, N3 is a comfy goal.

As for N2/N1? I honestly don’t know. Hard to judge the workload for something you aren’t even close to yourself :thinking:
I actually read a blog post of someone trying to get to N2 in half a year the other day. Pretty ambitious guy. He ended up somewhere between N4 and N3.
I’m not saying this to make fun of him, just that… N2 can seem a lot easier than it is?
And from what I’ve heard, N1 is way beyond N2.

If it was me, I’d probably refrain from setting such a far away goal right from the start, without knowing what you’re in for (if you could do it or not is another question).
Why not aim for the N2 at first, in a shorter time frame, and take some convenient online test like the J-Cat?
If it doesn’t work you can readjust earlier. If it works you keep on going right for N1.

4 Likes
#34

don’t be like that.

My whole life I struggled with three things physically…

My flexibility
My bridges
Handstands

I was a dancer, a pro athlete, even a martial artist and I always just accepted it. Then one day after a long yoga session I was like “You know what? I want to do side splits. I want to do middle splits. I want to do bridges and more than just headstands… I want to walk in a handstand.”

So I did research and started training. Technique is everything. No amount of hard work trumps technique just like no amount of exercise Trump’s diet for loosing weight. After months of work…I had a breakthrough!!!

My calves are touching the ground on my side splits! I’m holding my middle split lower now! I can finally actually look down at my hands as I hold a handstand, lifting more and more off that damn wall! And I walk my hands down the wall into a bridge now, something I could never do till now.

Whatever it is, you have to first believe it is even possible. You have to figure out a goal, create a plan unique to you, and just go for it. So what if you fail. So the F what! At least you tried!

Dare to dream.

2 Likes
#35

Honestly, imposter syndrome is a hell of a drug :stuck_out_tongue_winking_eye:
I can achieve as much as I want, but I’ll still only see what I did wrong.
I am aware of this, but that doesn’t change my confidence ):
If you don’t have a clear concept of where you were at the beginning, it is often hard to measure what you have achieved.
I am genuinely happy for you though.

6 Likes
#36

This is me :worried:

6 Likes
#37

Honestly I didnt even know WHEN I could take the JLPN1 until I wrote this post. I just heard someone did Wanikani in just over a year so doubling that timeframe seemed reasonable enough…well as I said… Its been very hard for me…like…I cry every time I pass a Level hard. (Its been a very emotional journey for some reason). But I stick with it.

I know WaniKani alone cannot prepare you for JLPN1 but I wanted a strong base in vocabulary to avoid all furigana handicaps.

So lets space it out…even more… July 2022 since I won’t finish Wanikani December 2021 anyway and that’s way too much on the nose for the exam.

So that’s… Jan 2021-May 2022: study 16-17 months?
June 2022: Review - Practice Exams

If I break it down… How long should I spend on each Level? And how does thar transfer to the Bunpro Levels?

Oh…and what is J-Cat?

2 Likes
#38

https://nihongo-e-na.com/eng/site/id87.html

Kind of like a self-assessment test for JLPT. That way, you’ll be sure what level you are at at any point during your learning process.

3 Likes
#39

Confusing thread honestly. Short answer is N1 in a year is practically unachievable unless you are living in Japan and devoting most of your free time towards language study.

With all your other concurrent pursuits, I think you need to adjust your goal back by at least 18 months, probably 3 years.

Japanese grammar is not easy. There is no shortcut to becoming proficient with it.

Edit: I would also like to mention that the majority of N1 grammar requires a foundation in the lower levels in order to grasp, as many items are archaic/formal representations of more common grammatical structures. In other words, without a solid foundation of N5-N2, very little in N1 will stick. This is my personal opinion, others may disagree.

6 Likes
#40

I don’t feel qualified to answer that. I haven’t touched N1 yet and only some N2 material :sweat_smile:
I had a rough time with pacing my grammar studies on my own, so I now fully rely on the pacing the material I follow has laid out for me. :see_no_evil:

There is a rough guideline that is brought up often, which I have found to be roughly true so far:
Each JLPT level takes twice the time the one before it did.

E.g. if JLPT N5 took you 200h, JLPT N4 would be 400h (an extra 200 coming from N5), JLPT N3 would be 800h (≙ +400), JLPT N2 1600h (≙+800), JLPT N1 3200h (≙+1600)

3 Likes