So why is it a good idea to complete all n5/n4/n3 topics in two months? (my log)

Bunpro
#21

I think there’s something to challenging yourself that works for competitive-type personalities. It’s why gamified ways to learn languages are so popular - kanji would probably not have become one of my favorite things to study without WaniKani making it fun and providing a game-like challenge.

But, like other people have mentioned, language learning in itself is a long journey, and mastering grammar will take more than going through all the stages of an SRS program. Supplementing study with reading, output, and various native materials is essential, and with only so much time in the day, it’s important to balance completing a fun self-imposed challenge with all the other aspects of learning Japanese. Even us competitive types can experience heavy burnout if we overload ourselves!
ദ്ദി ༎ຶ‿༎ຶ ) Best of luck!

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#22

So true!
Anyway in the end i decided to do 7 topics/day to finish n5/n4 in 47 days. + 40 kanji/day and like, 2 hours of words as well (hope to reach the point where I can learn 40 of them in this time, now it is 20)

I also included reading 2 stories here on Bunpro/day alongside the grammar, and I think after I learn 400-500 words I’ll move on to some other readings)

In the time where I can not learn I watch/listen frieren (like when washing dishes or cooking)

So as long as I have energy it should work well 🤌

#23

How long is this gonna take you every day? Seems to me at least 4 hours of straight work. _:(´ཀ`」 ∠):

#24

2h - kanji
2h - words
2.5h grammar
50m~ reading
And passive listening for most part just to catch some constructions

So about 7.4 hours

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#25

That’s a lot of time to dedicate every day!

I’m lucky that I have a lot of time at work to study, but I can’t keep focused for hours on end. I’m trying to get into reading and other more passive ways to consume Japanese that feel less like studying, but my level isn’t enough to read without having to look a ton up. (I could just ignore what I don’t know, but I also want to understand enough to enjoy… alas…)

#26

Try lingq in this case.
I enjoy reading there a lot (more advanced level of language more profit it gives, at least for me) you can immediately lookup words and then they stay yellow in text, you can import some stuff, video, books, music. Nice thing, take a look if you haven’t yet!

Problem that it can not read manga, but for manga and other non-import le stuff I’m sure there are tools for imidiate lookups (I have one for browser on phone right now) some better some worse, I thing the best if it saves words you want to save)

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#27

I think I’m just going to make my own study-route like some people do)
Maybe it’ll help me with a burnout and keeping goals because “people are watching” :laughing:

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#28

(First reply in the community - hello everyone!) So! Really wanting to second the “what about when you have to talk” bit mentioned here by RadicalC. I was very focused on overloading on SRS, particularly kanji and grammar and lacking on vocab and output ( ._. )"". When I started to speak weekly with a tutor, my mind went blank. It was like I had the equations but none of the numbers.
I highly recommend carving out time to intentionally work on output! Writing sentences, talking to yourself, etc. I journal nightly and try to remix sentences on here/WaniKani/Anki when I review them (ex: change tenses of sentences, swapping out verbs, or adjectives). It causes the review process slow down a bit but it’s engaging and I’ve remembered words so much more in the last two months! Obviously do whatever makes you happy but thought I’d chime in!

Best of luck!! ദ്ദി(˵ •̀ ᴗ - ˵ ) ✧

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#29

Who said this was a good idea?

I think retention or burnout would be an issue at that pace.

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#30

This is a really good point. I think that the grammar is less likely to stick long term if you can’t understand example sentences without looking up a lot of words. It’s normal to look up some words, but if you hardly understand any of the words then what’s the point of looking at examples.

#31

This thread gives me vibes of the JLPN thread a few years back.

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#33

I’ll preface this by saying that this is just my personal opinion and you are welcome to do as you please but…I would recommend strongly reconsidering this plan. At the very least be open to changing course later on.

In practical terms, if you do have 8 hours a day to spend on Japanese (realistically more once you add in the gaps between things and breaks) then you’d be better served by picking up some absolute beginner textbooks (e.g., Genki 1 and 2) and/or grinding super beginner graded readers and comprehensible input for a large chunk of that time. Anything you put into SRS comes back later so the workload will hang around even if you stop adding things. Further, you will be very mentally overloaded by that much new material a day, assuming you can do it, and would be better served by cementing what you have studied through input than trying to continuously learn new material. There is some wisdom in grinding beginner SRS material just to get it over with however just doing SRS will absolutely not teach you to understand Japanese. It is there to support the process - it is not the process in itself.

A suggested split for 8 hours a day (which I will be in awe of if you achieve and I mean that positively):

  • 0.5 hours Kanji SRS (as you have a head start this is optional)
  • 0.5 hours Vocab SRS (if or when you drop kanji then add that time to vocab)
  • 0.5 hours Grammar SRS
  • 2 hours Grammar study (textbook/guide/reading ahead through Bunpro lessons)
  • 2 hours Graded readers/easy reading
  • 2 hours Comprehensible listening
  • 0.5 hours Native materials (for getting used to it; comprehension will be very very low)

The input/non-SRS study will make the SRS easier and the SRS will support the input/non-SRS study. Don’t neglect listening. Kanji seems like the big boss when you start but it isn’t in the end. A solid foundation in grammar and then an extensive vocabulary will carry you much further in the long run. Put what you are learning to use through level appropriate input. The grammar SRS should lag behind what you have seen/studied so that the material isn’t totally new when you review it. As much as possible SRS should be for reviewing material, not learning it.

Note on output: If you plan on speaking the language anytime soon and not having a silent period then I would recommend starting very simple output exercises once you have a solid N4 foundation to work with.

To reiterate, the above is my opinion only. If you can muster 8 hours a day of study in any form it will be a massive achievement regardless as for a complete beginner that is extremely intense. If you do start to feel fatigued then don’t be afraid to reassess if it stops you from burning out and quitting completely. Good luck!

5 Likes
#34

Hi!
This is nice plan, and it defiantly can work.
But I like the idea with dedicated “point learning” more when I cram a lot of material I my brain and then trying to use it in listening/mb speaking. I guess this is due to me being chess player and speedcuber. So I’ve found this method productive in Italian, and I don’t feel like having problems right now in Japanese, or that I’ll have them this month :thinking: (it’s my 3rd target language for context).

About textbook - I think they cram everything really fast, but I just can not enjoy doing them, I feel really bad doing them, and just hate everything while doing them even when finding those ones that looks good(

But doing grammar here is enjoyable, even those I spending 1.5 hours already only after 35 tasks, but it looks like most stuff is sticking and I’ll be able to at least notice and separate those constructions in texts/audio (what I’m actually aiming for). As well as it just feels super easy to concentrate on the task, and the straightforwardness of what I need to do in one day! So if it worked for many people, I think complete ing n5/n4 grammar through bunpro in 45~ days can work for me as well.

About listening over learning words and kanji, as I said it can work, but for this language I’m testing theory that learning a lot of words with Anki is affective for me (as well as kanji, because without kanji learning words is struggle).

Anyway thanks for your response!

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#35

About halfway through N4, I stopped focusing that much on what particular level a grammar point is at. I started to read more (I’ve been using satori reader) and add any unknown grammar to Bunpro regardless of its alleged level. I’ve noticed that higher JLPT levels actually have some “useful no-brainers” like ところで [N3], そう言えば [N2], それとも [N2], 何しろ [N2], ～ようとする [N3] that in my opinion could easily be learned together with N4’s ～てみる, ～ずつ [N3], かなり [N3], すると [N3], etc.

I was going to make it into its own post, but I think this discussion is a good place to say that at some point you should stop focusing on JLPT levels too much and shift to consuming Japanese content and learn what is actually being used.

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#36

Makes sense!

#37

Entirely agree with you. Also, knowing a word and being familiar with a word is also something that strangely only comes at a certain rate. So while I still believe it doesn’t hurt to do more studying, I also believe it’s just not linearly proportional with the speed of acquisition. But more effort is always better than less :slight_smile:

Also, don’t know your situation, but OP you squeeze 7-8h per day, also try to keep a way to be able to absord “day off” if you have any. If you have 400 reviews per day in Anki for example, if you miss one day you might very well having 800 the following day. Of course, it’s possible to avoid most of the time days off at all, but it’s more easily avoidable if you have less reviews in the first place.

Downscaling your workload can also be a challenge if you need at some point, so don’t forget to anticipate that. For example, if I know I’ll have 1-2 weeks of less time to study, I’ll start to reduce my new cards 1-2 weeks before that, to reduce the amount of reviews ahead in time.

So as long as you understand that Spaced Repetition is more like a train that once it’s moving you can’t really stop easily and that if it’s too fast you’ll just keep totally momentum, it’s fine. In general I try to tend to ~half the time I know I can spend on reviews only, the other half time is spent on “flexible things”, like reading articles, listening to podcasts … Because those things, if I skip them, they won’t “snowball” the following days :slight_smile:

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#38

Wow I didn’t think about this “srs snowball” thing about this before…
I’ll take this information into consideration!

I don’t really know if I can add less srs stuff butt I’ll think about possible stops and reducing damage in those days.

#39

To give you an example, I have 2600 reviews planned for future in Anki right now, and I do around 160 per day. But I have 1100 that will happen in the next 20 days. So if I do a 20 days break, I have around 6-7 days worth of reviews to catch up ! Of course, if those have longs intervals (for example if most in Bunpro are “Seasoned”), it’s more or less OK because the ~300-400 I’d do today won’t reappear before X days. But if they were reapparing the next day, my number of reviews to catchup might sum up to something way bigger than 1100 (Because the 400 I would do the first catch up day, would already re-appear a few days later, while I still need to catch up the rest).

But if your family/work/life situation is very stable, you should not worry about it. Just keep that in mind if you know you have to skip doing reviews for more than a few days :slight_smile: Personally I went ~20 days in Japan this summer and I was doing my Anki reviews even there. For Bunpro, the SRS system is more gentle than Anki, so it’s fine to skip days without too much issues, in my opinion

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#40

OMG I remember that! haha

Here is a different view: If you can go through N5 and N4 very quickly maybe its a good thing. Japanese is structurally different than some languages. If you can go though the foundation (N5 and N4 maybe some N3 as well) at a very high speed it should hopefully give you a perspective of how Japanese works.

After this I would highly recommend to reset everything and go at it again ( at a slower pace if possible).

This way, new patterns and how the language works would make more sense. Things should be a bit easier and if you have questions about something, they will be more relevant. Also it will give you a chance for your vocabulary level to keep up with grammar.

N3, N2 and N1 have a lot of grammar points which are building up from N5 and N4, rushing too much may leave you with gaps that hurt you long term…

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#41

That sounds like a great plan, and I feel like it is the right thing to do so.
But challenges are the things that drive me, so I don’t know if I want to do what you propose or just continue 7 topics/day even after n5/n4 and some n3.

Anyway, I guess it all depends on my goal. Maybe it would make more sense to learn 80-100 words/day instead of grinding a bit of grammar + words. Or add more listening + reading to passively learn everything somewhere on lingq.com to learn more words in context.

I think I’ll decide after n5/n4 which I decided to complete until 01.10.2024

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