A question about the vocab 「先」

Japanese
#1

This is defined as “previous, prior, former, some time ago, preceding,” but many of the example sentences use it as “ahead” or “the future.” A couple examples are:

“How many kilometers from here is the nearest service area up ahead?”
“No one can predict what the future holds, so you should focus on the present instead of worrying about such things.”

I know from WaniKani that it can mean the “tip” or “end” of something, but I don’t see how either that or “previous” could mean “ahead,” which is almost the opposite. Does anyone have some intuition for this meaning/usage?

2 Likes
#2

Yes, this is an example where, due to Vocab still being a Beta feature, some vocabs have confused or flipped/switched definitions or readings.

In this case, there are three readings for 先 as a vocab. Using the browser extension 10ten Japanese Reader (I’m using Firefox), I’ll quickly copy those entries from Jisho/JMdict:

先, 前, 先き [さき]
(1) (n) point; tip; end; nozzle
(2) (n) head (of a line); front
(3) (n) first; before; ahead (of)
(4) (n) (the way) ahead; beyond
(5) (n,adj-no) future
(6) (adj-no,n) previous; prior; former; recent; last
(7) (n,n-suf) destination; address; place where you do something
(8) (n) rest (e.g. of a story); continuation; remaining part
(9) (n) the other party

先 [さっき]
(n,adv) (uk) a short while ago; a moment ago; just now; some time ago

先 [せん]
(1) (adj-no,n) former; previous; old
(2) (n) first move (in go, shogi, etc.); opening move

As you can see, there are three main readings: さき, さっき, and せん. And each has a distinct cluster of meanings.

In particular, 先 (さき) can mean either “previous; prior; former; recent; last” or “ahead; beyond” or even “future”. Seemingly it can mean ‘past’ or ‘future’ depending on context.

On the other hand, 先 (せん) can only mean “former; previous; old”, so seems restricted to only ‘past’.

In this case, although there are 3 dictionary entries for the vocab ‘先’, there is only 1 Vocab entry for ‘先’ on Bunpro.

And so, it seems that this Bunpro Vocab has a bit of a mixed-up/confused identity. On the one hand, its reading is さき, and the Example Sentences have meanings of ‘ahead’ and ‘future’. So, it appears that the Sentences line up with the specific reading さき. But the listed definitions seem more in-line with the dictionary version of 先 with reading せん.

There are numerous examples of such Vocab confusions, mixing different things from readings/furigana, to definitions, to sentence usages, etc.

When I find such mix-ups, I often submit a bug report with the Report [:beetle:] button, explaining what’s confusing and offering a resolution. For example, in this case, I would suggest that the definitions on the item page should be replaced with ones more in-line with the sentences and the reading さき, rather than せん.

Hopefully, as they work through the Vocab decks, they will be able to comb through them all and clean/tidy them up.

Honestly, 先 is an N5 Vocab, so it looks like this one slipped through, though.

8 Likes
#3

Thank you for the very detailed and thoughtful answer! I might get that extension as well, since it seems very helpful.

In particular, 先 (さき) can mean either “previous; prior; former; recent; last” or “ahead; beyond” or even “future”. Seemingly it can mean ‘past’ or ‘future’ depending on context.

This is definitely a bit strange to me, but I guess the intuition from (1)-(3) is something like the point of something is at the front and comes first or ahead of the other things. I’m curious about the etymology here, and how previous and point are related.

1 Like
#4

Here I am talking about the kanji 先, not the word “さき”: “Point” or “tip” or whatever is not etymologically the primary definition of 先. 先 depicts someone stepping forward. Google “先 成り立ち” and you can probably find a million articles discussing it in some detail. Etyomologically (and actually even now pragmatically) the primary meaning of 先 is ahead (forward perhaps better fits 前 which is a closely related kanji in terms of meaning). The secondary meaning of “tip” or “point” should be clear-ish, I think: the most “ahead” part of something is the tip/point of something.

As far as the use with both the past and future goes, we actually do the same thing in English. Consider that something that is done before or ahead of time has been done in the past but that the future is before us or what lies ahead of us.

Using English keywords to understand kanji means you lose some aspect of a kanji’s nuance or for the sake of mnemonic harmony you are told a white lie. I am diagnosing you with Wanikani brain and prescribing a course of actually engaging with real Japanese as a cure. It may take some time but you’ll eventually recover.

3 Likes
#5

Yeah, I’m still a beginner, so all of this is sort of bootstrapping to get to the point where I can engage with real Japanese more effectively.

I’m really curious about how words and meanings come together, so seeing stuff like this in another language unrelated to English is very interesting.

1 Like
#6

My immediate thought was お先に失礼します (I’m leaving first) 先にどうぞ(you go ahead)
in a jukugo you’ll see 先週(last week). I also started with kanji.
I used [#]先 (Kanji for earlier/ the tip) | KANJIDAMAGE this is his explanation
“先に:this expression sucks. It means ‘just a little while earlier in time,’ but it ALSO means, ‘just a little farther along in space.’ Sorry. If you’re on an elevator and want to say, “You go ahead and get off first, please,” You’d say お先にどぞ。 Sheesh.”

1 Like
#7

If you google 成り立ち of some kanji that actually originates in Chinese, you get Chinese etymology, not Japanese etymology. So yes this “stepping forward” is the etymology of 先, but only if we’re talking about the Chinese word xian1 that was borrowed into Japanese as せん and primarily appears in compounds (but also rarely as a standalone word).

But the vocabulary entry for 先 on bunpro is about the Japanese word さき, not せん. This word existed before Kanji were adopted into Japanese, so its etymology has nothing to do with xian1. さき does mean the point or tip of something long and thin, and this is its original and primary meaning. Eventually enough Chinese texts were annotated with さき as a translation, so さき also became associated with the kanji 先 and 前 (and various characters for the “cape” meaning that’s now generally considered a separate word), but it’s not otherwise related to the Chinese word xian1, and “stepping forward” is not part of its etymology.

2 Likes
#8

Excellent comment. (Just to be clear I was talking about the kanji itself and not the word さき - I will edit that into my original comment as perhaps it wasn’t clear enough. For those reading who aren’t sure how to find a word etymology you can search for [word] 語源 and for kanji explanations you can search for [kanji] 字源 or 成り立ち, hope that helps anyone who may be lurking and isn’t sure about the distinction being made here.)

2 Likes