In Standard Japanese masu-form + な is a casual abbreviation of masu-form + なさい, a polite command. Is this also in Kansai-ben, and is it only distinguished from the prohibitive command by tone of voice and context?
When you say masu-form, do you mean ますな? Because I’ve never heard of that.
However, if you mean the verb stem - the form of the verb that fits with ます, like 食べ, 書き, 行き, etc. - plus な, that’s not Kansai-ben - I live in Ibaraki and it’s commonly used here by many of my friends, and as far as I’m aware, it’s used all over the country, though I can only speak from my own experience.
For example, if I’m going for drinks with friends, they might say 飲みな！ to command me to drink, in a casual and light-hearted way.
I may be misunderstanding your question, so I apologise if that’s the case, but to prohibit someone from doing something, you don’t use the verb stem, you use the standard form of the verb plus な, so if my friend wanted to command me not to drink, because I was due to drive or something, he would say 飲むな！ Obviously this would be said in a different tone because of the dramatic difference between the two situations, but if there were no tone (if it was said in a text message, for example,) I would know the difference between them via their grammatical form.
Conclusion
飲みな！
飲むな！
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Thanks for the thorough response. I know that verb-stem + な is standard Japanese, similar in meaning to verb-stem + なさい. This is supposed to be a comment on a grammar point in the Kansai-ben deck, although I don’t know why it doesn’t properly link.
https://bunpro.jp/grammar_points/な-kansai
From this article, we see that apparently, verb-stem + な is a prohibitive command in Kansai-ben. So in lieu of 飲むな, in Kansai you might say 飲みな. But this is funny, because does that mean the standard, positive meaning of 飲みな does not exist in Kansai-ben? Or do both the positive and prohibitive meanings coexist, requiring context and tone to distinguish them?
Ah, now I understand what you meant. Well, I’m a Kanto boy, so I don’t really know much about Kansai ben, apart from occasionally chatting to a couple of friends who are from that area.
I did find this though, that since the verb stem plus な is used in Kansai ben as a prohibitive phrase, they often use や when the tone is positive.
So, from what I learned (and I don’t know how accurate this is):
Kanto (and others)
飲みな - drink
飲むな - don’t drink
Kansai
飲みや - drink
飲みな - don’t drink
Obviously depending on the situation, tone, etc, this could change since that what languages have a tendency to do, but it looks like this is how it generally works in Kansai. If there are any Kansai people reading who can confirm this one way or another, it’d be very much apreciated.
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Hello, I live in Kansai, and am using bunpro to practice hyoujyungo since I have to write my university essays and dissertation and such in that.
Also, Kansai ben differes a lot based on where you are. I will give ones that come to mind that i think are relatively standard.
To use the other person’s reply:
飲みや is perfectly acceptable
but ther are other options. you can say :
飲み , or perhaps to be more 関西っぽい , you could use 飲みぃ
飲んどき or 飲んどきや . The neuance is a little different but use is almost identical
Also if you want to make 飲みな a little more frienly , you can make it to 飲みなや
Or a little more direct 飲んだらあかん or 飲んだあかん . To make that a little softer i guess you might put it in to a explanetory form like 飲んだあかんねん
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To answer some of your questions, OP. It is differentiated by intonation (pitch accent). However using な after the ます stem to mean “don’t do” isn’t universally used across Kansai, as far as I know. This goes doubles for so called う-verbs. This specific phrase is way more common in Osaka, I believe. You’re right that it is slightly ambiguous and relies on context.
Equally, an extra ん is shoved in when using this pattern with る-verbs around where I live which makes things clearer. E.g., 食べな vs 食べんな. Also, な after the dictionary form of verbs is used in Kansai as well so it won’t sound out of place. In my experience 99 times out of 100 飲む would just become 飲むな.
Other options that mean “don’t” in Kansaiben that are not yet mentioned:
- 飲まんといて
- 飲みなさんな
I’d imagine there are some Kyoto and inaka ways to say this stuff but I don’t have much experience with that stuff.
OP, are you at a level where you’re comfortable learning about Japanese in Japanese (aimed at natives)? If so I may have some links you’d find useful for Kansaiben.
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Thanks for the interesting responses y’all. I have a better picture now.
CursedKitsune, I am close to that level, although probably not quite there just yet. Please do share the links you have in mind and I will refer to them in the near future.
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