Accurate translations vs. context based translations

[ultigonio]

@Jose7822

I give examples of what I mean here (in case you missed it): Accurate translations vs. context based translations - #7 by Jose7822

I can see the issue with this specifically and I’ve also occasionally gotten held up by this type of problem (wondering, “what exactly do they want here?”) but I would say this is less an issue of the translation itself and more just an issue of the hints and/or instruction maybe not covering all the bases they could - I think inviting the user to think outside the box of small terms they are given is ultimately necessary to helping them understand the breadth and nuance of a specific term

Sure, there are concepts in Japanese that don’t exist in English, or perhaps even in other languages.

That’s not really my point. Ultimately, “literal” translation is an arbitrary idea - you are counting on someone else’s - or multiple people’s - previously-made interpretations to guide yours. If they did not use someone else’s previously-made interpretation, then they would have had to make up their own interpretation themselves. Bunpro’s interpretations are just that - interpretations. They can be valuable anchoring points for learners, and largely do the job in translating from Japanese to English, but they are not necessarily the most accurate or natural or “literal” way to express a given thought.

[Jose7822]

@ultigonio

Bunpro’s interpretations are just that - interpretations. They can be valuable anchoring points for learners, and largely do the job in translating from Japanese to English, but they are not necessarily the most accurate or natural or “literal” way to express a given thought.

I rest my case.

[Jose7822]

Another example from today:

Sure, it could rephrased that way, but what’s actually being said is:

“My mother is a person who extremely values formality.”

OR

“My mother is a person who highly values formality.”

There are other ways this could be translated, which would still be more accurate than the provided translation. The point is that some BunPro’s translations end up being more like reinterpretations of the Japanese, rather than accurate translations, the latter being what I think to be more suitable in a learning platform.

I run into these types of interpretations almost daily, though some are simple typos (which I try my best to report).

[Asher]

You will definitely find a lot looser translations in vocab than you will in grammar, although there still are some loose translations in grammar.

The reason for this is that the vocab translations to English are actually done via ChatGPT 4, and are then all checked by us to make sure they include the correct target word and aren’t outright incorrect. The main reason for this is time. Writing the sentences in Japanese is basically a fulltime job for one of our staff members (Haruna), and writing word for word accurate translations for them would basically be another fulltime job for one of our English native speakers if we were to go down that path. Unfortuantely we just don’t have the manpower at this present moment to do that.

If you ever feel that any of the vocab sentences are completely incorrect though, feel free to report them with your suggestion! 9 times out of 10 we will change them unless there is some specific reason for keeping it as is.

We will probably end up redoing the translations at some point in the future as LLM’s get better and better at translating and following instrutions closely. We always ask for them to include all relevant vocab items in the translations, but results vary, which is why we check them ourselves too.

[Jose7822]

I kinda figured, given the sheer amount of sentences you guys have, especially for vocabulary as you said, that translations were being somewhat automated. Same with audio, which sometimes have incorrect pronunciations of select words.

I’ll keep reporting the ones I find and give my suggestions. Again, they’re not terrible by any means, but they do miss nuances that in my opinion should be expressed in the English.

Thanks for your reply, and for all the hard work. I promise you that as much as I’m complaining about some of these translations, I still really enjoy studying with BunPro. I just want it to be perfect .

[Edo9]

Cause it sounds kinda silly if you translate it literally.

I’ve had so many students come to me and complain about “inaccurate” translations once they get to upper beginner levels. They eventually grow out of it though.

Like Sidgr said, when you stop relying on English sentences less, that aspect matters less.

[Sidgr]

@ultigonio

Literal translation is a fake concept anyway

I get what you trying to say but I don’t think this is the way to Frame it.

[kelth]

How do Japanese people interpret it on a natural level? Think about how you interact with sentences in your first language. If someone said, “As for this project, it doesn’t have to be finished by tomorrow, okay?” Would you process it as, “this project doesn’t need to be finished by tomorrow” or would you process it as “AS FOR THIS PROJECT” full stop, “IT DOESN"T NEED TO BE FINISHED BY TOMORROW” full stop, “OKAY?” full stop.?

I don’t think your mind would process the sentence like that, as individual components being given equal weight, it would just process all the parts as one whole and simplify. I know it’s weird to think about how your brain processes its own native language, and you’ll be tempted to say, “nuh-uh” my brain would treat it as peace-meal pieces like that, but come-on and be honest now.

I’ve personally always found people advocating for transliteral translations weird outside of any context other than of a sentence break down. But breaking down a sentence for understanding, isn’t what Bunpro is doing. They are giving a translation, and in all honesty, if you had read that sentence in a work email, you would have processed it exactly as they translated it.