Am I doing enough?

Hello, everyone!

Lately, I’ve been wondering if what I do every day is enough, because my progress feels very slow. I learn new things every day, but overall I still see Japanese as a bottomless ocean.

My daily routine:

  1. 4 New Bunpro Grammar Points + Reviews (currently at N3 level now);
  2. 2 Articles on NHK Web Easy;
  3. 10 Lessons on WaniKani + Reviews (currently level 30);
  4. 10-15 min. YouTube video with comprehensible Japanese;
  5. 3 Lessons in Duolingo

So, I would love to hear about your daily routines and what you would suggest to change in mine to speed up the process!

7 Likes

One very important thing is to put your progress into perspective and remind yourself of a crucial metric that you can check every few days:

Have you regressed compared to the previous time? If not, great. And if you have improved even more than before, regardless of how small your progress was, then you’ve made a fantastic leap forward.

An example here is my experience learning to play the piano. While it may take me a full week to practice an additional bar (which may be as short as four or six notes) of a piece, it might feel disheartening in the beginning if I compare my current progress with the final result. I am setting myself up for failure by lamenting about not having finished the piece yet, instead of reframing my goal from “Finish the piece” to multiple “Finish bar number X” mini-goals.

People often tend to reach for the final goals and neglect that it takes many small but very important steps to reach that ultimate goal. So, regarding your post, you should evaluate whether you are unhappy because you don’t clearly see the actual progress you are making and whether you would be truly happier speeding it up in the first place!

As for myself, I recently started from scratch after having had Japanese lessons for four years around 2008. My daily regimen is basically the following:

  1. WaniKani Reviews (about to hit Level 3)
  2. Bunpro Grammar and Vocab Reviews
  3. 2 Bunpro Grammar Points and 2 Bunpro Vocab Items (both N5, given that I just started recently)
  4. 5 WaniKani Lessons
7 Likes

I mean Japanese basically IS a bottomless ocean. Even in your mother tongue there are words you won’t know. But anyways, I’ve said it before and I’ll say it again. Consistency is the most important thing. If you keep doing what you’re doing everyday (or near enough) for a year, 2 years, 3 years you WILL see progress and you’ll look back at where you’re language abilities were when you wrote this post and see how much you’ve improved.

Unless you really need to rush it for some reason then I recommend looking at it as a marathon not a sprint. If you do want to try speed it up I would say you could perhaps incorporate some online speaking practice.

Equally if you keep at this pace and you start feeling yourself burn out then I would recommend reducing what you’re doing instead of completely stopping. The routine is vital and keeping it going is most important (that said if you miss a day, obviously just start up again; it’s not game over for your dream of learning Japanese).

18 Likes

What is your goal for Japanese? What might be “enough” for one person might not be enough for another. If your goal is to live and work in Japan in a year, or pass a certain level of the JLPT soon, maybe it’s not enough. Or, if your goal is to have conversations with Japanese speakers, then you should be including conversation practice. But if your goal is for hobbyist purposes with no time limit, then speed isn’t really an issue. Like others have said, language learning is a marathon, not a sprint, and you could argue native speakers don’t ever “finish” learning their own language, so there is not really an “end” so to speak.

Personally, I just got back into learning Japanese after many years of hiatus (a year of Japanese in university + haphazardly doing Duolingo on and off). I’ve started doing Wanikani and Bunpro again with the aim of not burning out. Slow and steady wins the race and all.

I’m working my way through N4 grammar points on Bunpro and WK level 9, but my main source of motivation and learning so far is reading native media, specifically the easier material found on LearnNatively and participating in community book clubs on WK and Natively. I’ve made it a goal to do a bit of reading every day and to me there’s something way more satisfying about going through a pile of actual manga volumes and logging it on the website, compared to just doing SRS and reading “Japanese learning material”. And I get to track books that I eventually want to be able to read (and therefore is measurable progress). At this point I’m not so concerned about speed or progress, and am just enjoying the ride.

Depending on your interests and goals this might not necessarily work for you, but if you have interest in Japanese media I would highly recommend picking up a book or show from the website and giving it a go. I think at your current Bunpro and WK level it should definitely be doable!

9 Likes

Hi!
Why don’t you add bunpro vocab? I think wanikani is not enough for learning vocab. I use it for learning Kanjis. Also, what do you think about increasing Immersion (for example 1 hour per day Netflix with Japanese subs)?

3 Likes

I would say add listening to podcasts (Nihongo con Teppei, either the beginner or original(intermediate) depending on your subjective level). It doesn’t feel like a chore like reviews can and you don’t have to be sat stationary like with watching videos on YouTube. Also you can listen to an endless amount and not worry about the limits since you can do other things while listening.

There’s lots of podcasts and lots of people who make posts about recommended podcasts etc so have a listen to a few and stick with the ones you like.

  • Side note * - don’t personally see much benefit in Duolingo, also I imagine having so many “streak” type learning apps is going to lead to burn out. I feel like I had it bad enough with WK and Bunpro alone. But if you feel it’s worth it then you can keep it I guess.

Finally, the most important thing is to do something every day, so as long as you keep doing that as the others have said you will 100% progress in 1 year, 2 years etc.

3 Likes

Your routine seems pretty strong, congrats!

As others have said, it’s hard to say without knowing your end goal. The only thing I can think of as a good idea is to work your way through one actual textbook… might be beneficial with the explanations and exercises they can provide. But to each their own, really. There’s a million other things you could be doing, just do whatever suits you and perfect later.

Since you also asked about our routines, here’s mine:

  • Bunpro grammar and vocab lessons & reviews
  • Satori Reader story (at least 1, go through audio, then through the text by myself while clicking around words I don’t understand, then through audio again,up to a point I feel completely comfortable with the text)
  • Nihongonomori lesson/lessons (I use their paid subscription service on their website because I like the format, structure and I want to support them, but their youtube videos are quite good as well)
  • J-crosswords App / Numbiro App / Renshuu App games - If I only have a few minutes to kill, they’re great time killers, while also doing something good for my learning journey
  • Pocket Casts & Live Transcribe on my phone - to listen to podcasts and if I feel the need, read the subtitles, but only when i really don’t understand something (I really love “The real japanese podcast” and “shiku hakku american life”
  • As far as textbooks go I am going through “Try! N2”, and am waiting for the Nihongonomori book “JLPT N2 この一冊で合格する” to come in the mail.

That’s about it for me, good luck with your studies :hugs:

3 Likes

Your routine looks fine. imo the Duolingo time could probably be better spent on any of the four other points, but if it feels like something that works for you, it’s fine. N3-level study onward is just like this. Keep at it, you’re always improving. Maybe find some time to challenge yourself with things that are too hard that you can revisit in 2-6 months to really feel your improvement.

My study routine is as follows:

  • ~20 minutes of flashcard reviews per day at most between anki and bunpro. I really only add 2-4 new grammar points per week in bunpro, I’m not interested in making my daily review pile any higher than the 4-10 range it hovers around.
  • 2 hours (sometimes more) of playing video games in Japanese - included in this time is adding new grammar flashcards to my personal anki deck, I usually add about 10 new cards a day. Playing games I can only play in Japanese is a massive motivator for me, so my study time is heavily anchored toward it.
  • Anywhere from 10-80 minutes of Japanese podcast listening, depending on how much I walk/drive, how long cooking dinner takes.
  • Whatever happens to take my fancy on the way, my location on YouTube is set to Japan and my language to Japanese so I regularly receive just. random stuff in Japanese in my recommended. Sometimes I stumble onto short stories or manga as well.

I do sometimes feel like I’m not improving and sometimes I even feel like I’m getting worse, but every now and then I’ll catch footage of the games I played earlier this year and notice just how much smoother I feel reading them than I did when I first played them. It’s just really gradual.

6 Likes

No routine is good enough if it doesn’t incorporate reading native material. You read NHK Easy, which is not bad, but you also say you don’t see any progress. To give you some perspective, I went from scratching my head every other sentence in Pokemon to playing Cyberpunk with surprising ease in around 10 months of daily reading. On a day to day basis I saw no progress - I still google a lot of unknown words each session. But in the span of these past few months I made progress I honestly thought impossible until I launched CP a couple weeks ago. I will preach reading till my last days, or till some tech will make learning obsolete.

11 Likes

Fun fact, the 1981 Depeche Mode song, “I just can’t get enough” was inspired by writer Vince Clarke’s feeling that he wasn’t doing enough Japanese language learning.

5 Likes

Sorry, sorry, sorry, obvious nonsense.

The song’s actually called, “Just can’t get enough” - rest of it was true though.

5 Likes

I think you are doing good! Japanese just takes such a long time to master. Me too am struggling at times, but then I pull through.

1 Like

perhaps try reading media you like to read, rather than sticking to stuff you maybe don’t want to (this is because you will feel more compelled to read it even if it’s hard as you like it. With a mouse over dictionary like yomichan + anki you can create anki cards and mine from material in a click of a button).

3 Likes

Greetings @lieath !

One thing I noticed that was not on your list, and which I have recently found to be very fruitful, is doing Vocab on BunPro (to access it, you just have to opt-in to the Beta features in your Settings).

The ‘official’ Bunpro Vocab Decks follow the JLPT level system, N5 (basic) to N1 (advanced), although actually they have a lot of additional ‘unofficial’ (so far at least) vocab items available if a particular word you want to study is not within the JLPT levels.

When you start to use a Vocab Deck, for example the Bunpro JLPT N5 deck, you should go into the settings and make sure to select a sensible ordering (the default ordering is something akin to ‘alphabetical’, which is not very useful IMHO), such as according to popularity in Anime, or Novels, or something like that.

That way, you start to see the most common words right away, and you’ll really see the benefit of it as it slowly (day by day, as you add more items to your reviews) fills in the gaps in your vocab. Words that you’ve seen many times but never took the time to look up, and so you’ve never quite got the nuance, suddenly become words you’re familiar with.

Also, importantly, in my humble opinion, is to go into the settings and make sure you’re using the Review Type called “Fill-in Question / Manual Answer” or perhaps “Fill-in Question / Reveal & Grade Answer”.

The “Fill-in Question” presents what’s called a ‘Cloze’ (basically a ‘fill in the blanks’) card, which has a complete Japanese sentence, with a blank ___ where the correct vocab would go. And this is why I highly recommend this feature of Bunpro. IMHO, it’s superior to any other format I’ve tried before (admittedly, I’ve only tried a few various formats before; perhaps there are equivalent or better systems out there).

The sentences are curated by the BP team, including being checked for naturalness by native speakers. Levels N5 and N4 include the audio of the sentence, spoken by a native speaker.

Level N3 has the sentences available as Cloze, but the native-speaker audio is not yet available. However, in the meantime, they have added a very natural-sounding text-to-speech voice which reads the sentences. Sometimes it doesn’t get things right, but you can quickly submit a bug report during reviews – it is still in Beta after all.

And, they are continuing to add full sentences for N2 and N1, and they recently mentioned that support for N2 Cloze input should be available in the next few months (perhaps as late as first quarter 2024). So, they are making steady progress, and if you start at N5 and work your way up to N4 and N3, then N2 will probably be fully ready by the time you get to it.

The biggest benefit, again IMHO, is that the sentences provide:

  1. Context for the vocabs. So, you learn much more the nuance and usage of the vocabs, rather than just a single primary meaning like a typical SRS flashcard.
  2. Lots and lots of actual reading practice! True, they are isolated sentences, so there’s not as much full-context comprehension practice that you’d get from reading a full article or story, but they are written in natural Japanese, and there are a lot of them!
  3. They also introduce exposure to additional vocab and grammar that are incidental or secondary to the main vocab you’re practicing. You don’t need to know the meanings of these words/grammar in order to fill in the blank with the vocab-under-review, but you get a kind of ‘peek’ or ‘preview’ of additional words, and become comfortable with seeing unfamiliar common words in a sentence.
  4. A gradual level progression. The BP team have cultivated the sentences so that they generally only use vocab from JLPT levels at most one (or maybe two? I’m not 100% sure) above the current level you’re studying. So, you won’t get dumped into the deep end of trying to understand a sentence with complicated grammar or rare vocab until you advance through the levels.

Probably other benefits, but that’s good enough for now.

Personally, starting to use BP’s vocab system has drastically improved my confidence and ability with reading.


One thing I would caution – personally, I’m prone to this issue, maybe other folks not as much – is to be careful to find an overall pace for yourself that you find comfortable, in the sense that you could imagine that “I could maintain this pace comfortably for the foreseeable future, even if significant roadblocks were to pop up in my life.”

If you’re feeling any significant amount of excess stress or feelings of ‘overwhelm’, then it’s probably a good idea to actually slow right down, reduce the number of daily new lessons you’re adding, perhaps even to the point of pausing all new lessons until you’ve got your daily reviews back to a comfortable pace.

The idea is to a) avoid burning out – burn out is awful and I wouldn’t wish it on anyone; but also b) find a pace where you are actually enjoying your Japanese studies. This enjoyment will be able to propel you forward indefinitely, and learning Japanese will not be any kind of ‘chore’, but more like a good habit and a fun hobby.

[Note: I’m assuming you’re not learning Japanese for work or class, or out of any other kind of necessity. Obviously, that kind of necessity will change how you have to approach things.]

If you’re prone to taking on too much stuff, as I am, then hopefully the above caution will be helpful to you. If it doesn’t apply to you, feel free to forget I mentioned it. :sweat_smile:

5 Likes

how good is your japanese level? If youre not atleast at n3 level stuff, i recommend ditching progressing at wanikani completly and reinforce those learned kanji. The first kanjis are the most important, and if you know 1000 kanji already,i would recommend shifting your focus to more important things. If youre grinding N2 stuff already, you can interact with more complicated stuff, which is necessary that you don t forget the majority of the kanji learned by wanikani. The most important thing is vocabulary, then basic grammar, and after depending if you want to get good at reading, or listening and speaking.

3 Likes

I agree 100%. I follow a very similar routine on wanikani and bunpro and after over a year (I started learning in late October last year) here’s how I feel about it:

  • Wanikani is well worth focusing on until about level 30. After that you hit severely finishing returns as you start learning more niche, lower frequency kanji.

  • Similarly Bunpro grammar N5 to N3 is worth doing as fast as comfortable. It’s all things that come up all over the place all the time.

Once you’ve done this I think the focus should shift to consuming real Japanese and using that to guide your studies. I’m mostly paying games and reading manga, that’s mostly ready content with a visual element to help you through. I want to switch to light novels soon though.

In parallel I’ve also been going through the Bunpro vocab staying with N5. At this point it’s mostly words I know or at least recognize, but having to actually produce then from memory is a good way to really drill them in my brain.

As for the Bunpro N2 and N1 grammar I only add the points when I encounter them in the wild, this way I focus on things I actually need.

3 Likes

Thanks everyone for your replies, you’re a big help!

Lately, I started to get tired of my everyday routine, but not to the extent of burning out. I understand that I don’t want to study Japanese for the rest of my life, I want to enjoy it. SRS systems really feel like a chore sometimes, so I guess reducing their amount would be for the better.

I will definitely try Bunpro vocab decks and maybe focus more on listening and reading native material. Thank you all again!

2 Likes

You are doing more than me but skip Duolingo and use Kaniwani instead.

When I started lessons on Italki I couldn’t recall any words from Wanikani but my teacher was surprised by how much I knew when I was reading.

Kaniwani makes you recall the words better I think - reinforces Wanikani at the very least.

If your goal is to converse you probably should look at something like Italki or language exchange.

3 Likes

Yeah I feel you, I see people who maintain an anki deck over the course of 10 years sometimes, it just baffles me. I’ve studied other languages before Japanese and I usually drop all SRS after ~2years because it’s just too boring and at that point I have the basics to just consume real content anyway.

Set short term objectives and try to consume content that you actually enjoy. It’s a lot easier to “study” when it’s something you actually want to do. I just spent the last hour playing a game in Japanese, I got a lot of practice that way and it felt actually fun.

As I said in my previous comment once you’ve completed N3 (both in terms of grammar, vocab and also kanji) I don’t think it’s worth doing SRS-first because it just won’t be very efficient anyway.

The path to Japanese fluency (or any language, really) is a very long one, but it doesn’t mean that it has to be a boring and tedious. Bunpro, Wanikani & friends are great to bootstrap the basics but eventually they necessarily turn into an hindrance IMO. Not because they’re bad tools, just because at some point the training wheels necessarily become counterproductive.

EDIT: Just to be clear because I think what I said here could be interpreted in a wrong way: when I say that after N3 I wouldn’t advise going “SRS-first” I don’t mean that you should drop SRS when you finish N3, for one thing it’s well worth going through the reviews until you’ve mastered the existing point, and also you can still add more lessons to your SRS but instead of just picking the next lesson in the bunpro pile you pick a lesson that corresponds to something you encountered in the wild and you want to practice.

For instance today I added the せめて N2 grammar point to my Bunpro SRS because I encountered it in the aforementioned videogame.

This way you don’t learn grammar and vocab that you won’t actually use and forget by the time you actually need them.

8 Likes

too much