Am I spending too much time on SRS? Having some doubts on my current routine

Japanese
#1

Hey all, I’m looking for some suggestions/advice on where to focus my efforts. I started my learning at the beginning of the year, and spend roughly 1-2 hours/day. This is currently my limit with how much time I can invest on this hobby. This is what my current activities look like:

  • My main focus has been WaniKani, and I’ve been trying to go as fast as I can to finish this program. I’m currently at 35/60, taking about a week per level. On average I do ~256 reviews/day based on my monthly stat. At this pacing, I am noticing the # of reviews slowly rise as I get higher up the levels.
  • I’ve been slowly working through Kaishi 1.5k, and am expected to finish mid December at my current pace of 5 words/day (1200/1500).
  • I am currently going through Bunpro at 2 grammar points a day. This seems to be the sweet spot for me to just do new lessons + reviews. Currently I’m at N3 - 85/219
  • SRS pretty much takes up all my study time. On the days I commute, I typically do my morning SRS and if I still have energy/time, will listen to Shun’s podcast. Otherwise I just relax for the rest of the commute and turn on some music. I do feel like I am making progress in reading via the Bunpro sentences during reviews in terms of speed/understanding, but don’t do any extra reading.

My concerns:

  • WaniKani has worked really well for me in learning the Kanji, but certainly the vocabulary is questionable at times. It is also the most time consuming resource. I rationalize this with the notion that at most, it will take me another ~5 months to finish, and I can invest that time into immersion after. I feel that some of my satisfaction comes from seeing all the numbers/stats, challenging myself to meet that weekly level goal, etc. It’s nice when the Kanji I’ve learned shows up in new vocab within Anki.
  • I’m not really sure what to do with Anki after Kaishi 1.5K. Looking at Bunpro Vocab, there are some pretty big gaps in my JLPT vocab. I am considering working on these since WK states I would have seen up to ~96% of N3 Kanji at my currently level so I figure it should be “easier” to work through. Is this really practical? It could be nice to have JLPT levels as milestones and take the mock exams, but this feels like another side track from immersion.
  • Tbh, as someone who typically lurks in various forums, I do feel bad about not immersing when seeing other people’s experiences. Am I spinning my wheels here, or do I keep trucking along?
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#2

You’ll want to learn the kanji eventually anyway, so I don’t see how any learning is a waste.

Sounds like you are dedicated and doing a great job!

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#3

I think it’s fine to start immersing when you feel ready to tackle it, but I also don’t think there’s anything wrong with just doing SRS until you’re familiar with the N3 content because that’ll give you a decent base and make immersing a bit less painful. Starting at that point though I think is the time to shift your time toward immersion.

If you’re gonna keep using Anki for vocab after you finish the Kaishi deck (which I personally recommend), get Yomitan if you don’t have it and set it up so that you can add cards to Anki with the click of a button as you’re immersing, once you start doing that.

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#4

To piggyback on this, I think honestly learning at least the meaning of the kanji before you learn vocabulary is going to be beneficial. For me, associating the meaning of the kanji with a new word is helpful to remember the word as well as how to read it. You’ll also need to know which kanji go with what words eventually anyway, so if you already know the kanji, you can make those associations as you go rather than having to go back and learn it all again as you’re learning the kanji.

This might not be true for everyone, but it is true for me, at least.

That said, you need to have some form of applying that SRS in your studying, too, IMO. You could do this by writing using the grammar and vocab you are learning, or by reading. It’s one thing to be able to recognize it in the context of the SRS, and another to be able to use it in the wild.

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#5

You don’t need to feel bad or compare what you do with what others do. I think you are doing great and if it keeps you motivated then I think thats whats important. As for immersion, in my case, I started consuming content after I studied for like 2 years because I found the beginner reading practice/listening SO BORING. You could give it a try anyway and if it works for you then thats even better. But I don’t see anything wrong with studying for a while and start to immerse later when you understand a good amount of grammar and words.

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#6

thanks for the reassurance, I’ve heard of Yomitan but haven’t looked much into it. I’ve been thinking of adding unseen vocab from Bunpro’s sample sentences as a starting point so this could be really great

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#7

I learn best this way as well! I think I need to consider reducing my SRS time to make room for some reading

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#8

Hi edwadl,

I don’t know your circumstances but take it easy and do what you truly feel is right.
You are making great progress but it feels to me that you’re bit stressed from your hobby.

If you’re aiming for passing a test/certificate then study for those there min/max guides for that if you’re aiming for your understanding of a language then create your own metric eg. (understanding show, manga, news …) list can go on to infinity it’s your own measure of progress and what you want to do with the language.

In my opinion certificates/degrees or any paper don’t usually mean much but what matters is that what can you do with learned knowledge.

But to your points of concern:

  • WK is great for learning kanjis and their meaning but sucks at vocab. The vocab is there to only reinforce your memory of the kanji. I think around levels 20-30 the gains on kanjis/vocab starts to have diminishing returns.

  • Depends on your goals. But it is nice to sidetrack and take the scenic route once in while or almost always in my case.

Literally me:

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Kakashi-Lost-On-Path-Of-Life-1150101169

  • Try it and you will see if it’s working out for you or just visit Japan with homestay if it’s in your means.

Best of luck out there.

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#9

I think I’m going against the grain here but I would like to warn of the SRS trap that many of us fall into.
SRS tools are very satisfying to use, but I firmly believe they should be used in addition to other learning materials.
I find that using SRS only often does not yield good results because it is not being reinforced in other ways, be it textbooks or immersion.
Of course you should do what works for you, but my personal advice is to try cutting down the SRS just a little bit to allow for 5 or 10 or 15 minutes of another kind of study.
You don’t have to immerse. Immersion can be a big leap. But even just reading a graded reader from Tadoku or doing 10 mins of exercises in a textbook is a good way to put your SRS learning into practice.

ETA: I want to clarify that this doesnt mean only doing SRS is bad or that you are not learning, but just that in my experience it can lead to a weird state where you have done a lot of study but don’t have much practice recognising what you’ve learned in other contexts. This can create a feeling of “I haven’t learned anything” even though you’ve learned a lot. So that’s why I think it’s important to practice using your learning in different contexts and up your ability to recognise and comprehend outside of an SRS setting, where your mind is already highly primed to expect certain things.

15 Likes
#10

thank you for the kind words. Certainly Japanese learning gives me some stress, probably coming from time management and trying to be effective, compounded by the time gating and levels in WK lol. I am quite a competitive gamer so stress from hobbies for better or worst, is part of the experience for me. I think that’s why WK has been sticking so well - checking the boxes, increasing the numbers, leveling up.

I really like what you said about sidetracking and taking the scenic route. I’ve formed this image in my head that after finishing N3 grammar and WK, I would be taking it slow and immersing in things I truly enjoy - what I wanted out of this to begin with! However that’s a giant hurdle which I’ve ultimately set up for myself… It might be more enjoyable for me to just slow down on this WK race and try something new

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#11

comparison really does take the joy out huh? I’m sure there’s a quote somewhere on that :wink: . Haha I should know better but those damned thoughts. I went through my first graded reader on Tadoku after reading some of the replies haha. It was refreshing to do something outside of these resources, but I can see how it can be boring. I’ll try to stick with it and see how things go!

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#12

Hard agree. I love Bunpro and I have learned a lot from it, but SRS really is a “trap” in a lot of ways. it’s very easy to get into the loop of just adding things without really taking them in, like adding in a word blindly, (Let’s use 劇 (geki) as an example.) I’ve probably learned it 5-6 times from renshuu, bunpro, genki 1, ect. but I’ve never actually learned it until I encountered it in real life. I found that I can score high on places like bunpro or renshuu because I’ve learned the answers to the questions, not the actual words or grammar.

To add to it, when I sat down and actually studied “のに” with a textbook, I immediately understood it. turns out it had nearly master ranking on Bunpro, but I just didn’t recognize it’s nuance until now.

I think a very common mistake is using SRS to “learn” content and not to review what you have studied. Which is why a lot of people may see 情報 which is an n4 word and despite being “n3” or even “n2” on bunpro, wanikani, or whatever flavor of SRS you use, you may not understand it immediately as if you would if you studied or found it elsewhere first.

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#13

I decided to go through my first graded reader over on Tadoku just a few moments ago thanks to you and a few others haha. I’m going to incorporate this into my routine as a starting point for engaging with content outside SRS and see how things go. While I should reduce my WK time to accommodate, this is probably going to be extra load because truth be told, the grinder in me wants to maintain my WK pace, and see those sweet level ups. I think I might need to go cold turkey and switch over to Bunpro’s JLPT vocab/Anki mining to get off the WK addiction lol. The comments here are seriously getting my cogs churning though… I’ve had doubts about how much time I’m investing into WK and this is only empowering those thoughts.

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#14

Yup I have this problem a lot too. I think its better to learn the grammar point with a textbook and then come back to it on bunpro, using bunpro simply for review and additional context for something you’ve already learned. That’s basically why I started using it anyway.
Then following that up with some immersion (for me that’s reading or lately online Japanese lessons) is even better because it gets reinforced again in the wild and you’re like hey, I know that! That moment right there will guarantee it sticks in your brain better because it’s associated with a strong feeling of “yay I recognised that!” and studies show that the emotional impact of learning something is a strong predictor for how well we will retain it.

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#15

I totally understand the desire to clock WK in a certain amount of time, and at the end of the day it is really up to you how you want to do things. It’s your study and your goals, so if that’s truly where your heart leads, and you’re happy with that, then that’s fine!

That said, I think it is good to experiment with changing your study routine when things are feeling stale or you’re having doubts. You could try using vacation mode on WK for a couple of days and engaging in other activities and see how you feel. You could try reading, joining an online class, seeing a tutor, or whatever you’d like. When doing self-directed learning, WK and other SRS systems really do provide that feeling of structure and direction that you need, so it can be hard to feel like other study is actually taking you anywhere. But at this stage in your learning journey, why not have a few days off and see what else captures your attention and makes you feel good about Japanese?

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#16

There are some basic principles useful for all learning, which others have already touched on.

Step one is ask yourself why you are learning. Do you want to read native Japanese media? Watch native Japanese media? Talk to Japanese friends? Use Japanese for work? Or perhaps just enjoy the experience of learning something?

Step two is to establish some foundational skills. If you want to read native Japanese media, you’re going to have an extremely slow, difficult, and unpleasant time if you start trying to read a Japanese novel with no knowledge of kana, kanji, grammar, or vocabulary. Tools like textbooks and SRS are good here to introduce you to a large volume of foundational information that can be used in whatever context you want to use it in. This is where a lot of people’s learning starts and, unfortunately, stops.

Step three is apply the foundational skills to the material you want to engage with at a level that’s just a bit higher than your current level (this is called i+1 in learning models) and learn through that. If you want to read Japanese media, read a ton of picture books for kids. You will learn vocab by seeing it used with pictures. You will learn grammar by seeing it used in real, connected sentences. Then move up to short stories for kids, then light novels or manga, then full-on novels and so on. It takes a very long time but the idea is that if this is what you wanted to do with your learning, you’ll hopefully be enjoying this part.

The key point is that if you want to learn to read, your practice should be reading. If you want to learn to understand spoken Japanese well enough to watch anime unsubbed, your practice should be listening to spoken Japanese. Practice should model the goal behavior. Being mid-N3 is enough to start consuming low-level native content, so if you’re getting a little unmotivated with constant reviews, try cutting that volume down and engaging in your goal behavior with the spare time.

If you just want to learn because you like learning, no need to change anything. If your reason for learning is you like seeing all the review app bars fill up, then what you’re doing is perfect practice, and that’s okay.

2 Likes
#17

I wanted to this some more thought before replying. Ultimately, my goal is to understand spoken Japanese, but I think reading will useful for games. I do feel like my best learning strategy is through reading, and I hope that once I explore this area more outside of SRS, it will give me a better foundation for listening. I will continue with Shun’s podcast for the time being and try to be more diligent with it on my commutes to/from work, rather than listening to music haha.

Undoubtedly the gamer in me likes filling up the review app bars. I’ve found some peace with it from all the replies here. I realize that I hadn’t considered how much fulfillment I could get from doing things outside SRS completion, and want to get a better feel for it.

Going forward, I’m going to incorporate graded readers into my routine for a bit and see how well I can adjust. I like that so far, it doesn’t take too much time to go through one. At the very least, I can set aside 15 minutes and go as far as I can once the stories get longer. I’m hoping I’ll take a liking to learning/retention via reading and want to increase my time in this area, cutting down SRS(mainly WK tbh) as needed.

Thank you for taking the time to write such a detailed breakdown!

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#18

Thank you for advice, after much consideration I’m going to explore reading more. Those feel good moments are definitely when I recognize things out in the wild like youtube/anime/games and the podcast I occasionally listen to. I think reading will be best suited for me as I feel better having easy access to lookups. For now, the “yay I recognize that” feeling is keeping graded readers interesting enough, but I suppose it will be time to move onto other reading material once that fades - material that I am interested in for the content? :astonished:.

I don’t feel demotivated in my SRS yet so I’m going to try and keep that up. If I find myself liking reading more or can’t accommodate, then I’ll definitely want to tone it down.

#19

we are all different when it comes to this, but “SRS rot” for the lack of a better way to put it, is a massive issue for me. If I don’t immerse and actually use the material I learn outside of SRS, my retention will absolutely tank. Sometimes I really have to force myself to sit through some material, but in the end it’s always worth it.

Similarly, I struggle with things such as all the N5 medical terms, because they typically don’t appear in the material that I watch.

If you do so much SRS that you don’t have time to immerse, in my opinion, you’re doing too much SRS.

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#20

SRS rot is a good term lol. For sure going through material outside of SRS will help with retention. It would help with progressing some of my items further along in the SRS stages so I don’t need to redo them as often. Mainly the vocab that uses the Kunyomi reading is where I struggle because who figures, you practice more the Onyomi on WK with its Kanji focus.

As a side note, this is my current stat distribution for having not really done any immersion. I think it takes ~6 months if you get each review stage right before it burns, so probably 1/3rd of the material I’ve done if I get everything right at each stage. Not a realistic expectation, but by this calculation I should have around 5793/3 = 1931 items burned, which I am under haha.

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As others have mentioned, retention in SRS probably doesn’t translate as well when recognizing things in the wild, so I’m probably going to see things I would have recognized within the SRS space, but not during reading lol. That’s gonna be a bit painful, but a good learning experience

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