App to use with Bunpro and Wanikani for self study?

Japanese
#1

Hi,
I wanted to ask for some advice.
Wanikani and Bunpro work fine for me (if my life lets me do it regularly :smiley: )
As a textbook I have Genki and I like it, but there is always a problem.
I read the chapters and do the examples and stuff but I don’t feel like I really am able to use the content properly.
Even in Bunpro it sometimes feels to me like I just learn the example sentences but I won’t be sure how to use some of the grammar in real life sentences.

In a perfect world there would be some kind of app which gives me sentences for me to translate into Japanese using the particles and other grammar from Bunpro or Genki and tells me if I’m wrong.

Is there anything like that and if not how do you progress with your self studies?
The motivation is there but I struggle with an effective path.

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#2

Hi MikkaT,
I’m experiencing the exact same problem. You’ve just put into words the question i didn’t know how to ask. I’m affraid that means I have no useful answer for you :sweat_smile: but at least we are not alone. Let’s hope someone in this community have experienced this feeling before us and can give some guidance :blush:

Some thoughts I had about this was that I should try to gather with someone to talk and practice what I’ve just learned in order to improve and be able to put words and grammar together, but I there is an irrational fear to fail in front of other people which I cannot overcome. Any idea on how to do it (besides “just do it”)?

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#3

Hey! Welcome back to the community, hope you’re having a great time here! These are just my 2c on the subject, so please feel free to take it or leave it.

To me this reads like you’ve reached a point where you don’t need to study the content, but to use it. Have you considered seeing a tutor weekly? Not someone who teaches you the content, but someone that checks it for you and gives you feedback on how well you understood the language.

And even though there are apps that can certainly help, there’s a lot of value on engaging in real conversation and practice with a native teacher or someone who’s fluent in the language. Even if you’re at an earlier level where you feel you can’t say much, real practice goes a long way. Think of it a muscle: you can understand how it functions and where all the joints and tissues and bones are, but unless you work it out through focused repetition, you won’t get stronger.

Hope this helped! Rooting for you.

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#4

I have had the exact same issue as you in the past, and got over it by ignoring it and continuing with my studies. At some point, it all just clicked and everything made sense. You’re reinforcing your understanding of the language, even if you don’t know exactly how to use some of the grammar right now. It doesn’t all have to make sense immediately - think of it as planting seeds for the future; the land will be barren, until one day it’s not. But you must continue to nurture it.
Also, since motivation is not limitless, I recommending finding some real world applications for your Japanese, for the moments when it falters. 頑張ってね！

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#5

What helped me get over this is realising that other people just do not care and life is incredibly short. Your mistakes will be forgotten and the conversation will continue, especially as someone who is still learning. They may also be busy worrying about how other people perceive them, so there is not much time for them to spend judging each small mistake you might make.

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#6

I think it’s quite common to worry about the effectiveness of your learning. But learning a language is such a big effort requiring such a long amount of time, the thing to worry about is motivation and tenacity rather than efficiency.

So I don’t particularly enjoy group classes for this reason, (along with getting weirdly competitive). I do 1-2-1 sessions on italki with a tutor. Basically shop around until you find one that makes you feel comfortable - there will be one. It might not be the first one, or the second or third, but at some point (quite quickly I think) you get used to the set-up. When you find the right tutor and comfortable environment, you’ll be too busy trying to make Japanese to worry about it.

Like learning to swim, you’ve just got to get into the water I’m afraid. But once you do, you’ll think ‘oh it wasn’t that big a deal’.

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#7

I remember the app lingo deer used to do that kind of sentence construction, last time I used it was years ago and I think it might cost money now though.

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#8

Have you tried using Bunpro without any English prompt ? If you choose « Hint only » in the « Display and Review » settings, you will get the Japanese close/fill-in sentence and an explanation in japanese of what’s expected of you. I find that I don’t recognize the sentences so much and answer by rote, but have to actually figure which grammar point/vocab to use and why.

(By the way, I find those settings a bit unclear : « Hint » means « Japanese explanation », « Nuance » means « nuance in English », and « translation » is, happily, self-explanatory. « No English » actually means « nothing at all »)

Marumori also has some translation exercises in their grammar SRS, where you have to put words in the right order but I think it’s only N5 and N4 right now

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#9

Personally, I started using a ChatGPT to generate some sentences in English - I’m mostly just asking "Can you generate some sentences in English, so I can translate them myself to Japanese as a practice using " and then I’m just replying with my translations. It’s quite good to correct mistakes too, though I recommend to add Yomichan extension if you’re still learning kanji since it doesn’t reply with hiragana very often.

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#10

Hi, thanks for your ideas and recommendations.
It is very good to hear that I’m not the only one with this concerns.

I agree that 1 to 1 lessons would be the best solution probably, but because of my working situation it is not an option at the moment. I hope I can do them in the future.

I haven’t thought of ChatGPT until now but it may be worth a try.
The Marumori exercises sounds good as well.
I’ll definitely check them out as well.

#11

I would add Satori Reader as an excellent supplement. Once you’ve learned at least N4 grammar points you can start to comprehend The Jam Maker reading series pretty well. I’ve found that’s given me motivation to press on with N3.

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#12

I will always, always recommend these resources for people who are just starting out with reading/listening to Japanese content:

A massive part of being able to output basic, and then natural Japanese is taking in a lot of basic, and then natural Japanese. Reading and listening a lot, especially at your ideal level, will help with this. Since it sounds like you’re just starting out, graded readers and other early-level comprehensible input are likely gonna be an ideal resource for you.

Tutoring is good, but I’ve been studying for over a year, taking in tons of spoken and written Japanese, and I still feel like it’s a touch too early for me to perform the juggling act of comprehending my conversation partner, outputting my own response, and doing the various normal things one tries to do in a conversation, but my very first conversation, self-introduction and all, did still go surprisingly well because I’d spent so long letting things cook. If you’re just starting, it may end up being really uncomfortable and difficult.

I would not recommend ChatGPT at all but especially if you are a beginner, as you will be unable to recognize when it produces inaccurate Japanese.

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#13

I second Satori Reader. I started using it halfway through N4 and found that some of the series were suitable, including one called 明子の日記 ( Akiko’s American Foreign Exchange). I have also started reading some of the other ones. I appreciate the learning tools (including popup dictionary, integrated SRS for vocab, easier/harder editions of the same text, etc.). But perhaps most importantly, as someone who does creative writing, I find the stories are well written and actually enjoyable to read.

#14

Not an app, but try and read books. They say the best way to learn your target language is to read…I am trying to take my own advice, and it is slow, but I can see an improvement. I’m also in Japan right now for a couple of weeks and my speaking skills, albeit still poor, is a lot faster now.

Good luck!! If it seems like a chore, stop and do something fun instead in the language.

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#15

Tutors are aware that you are a student who is trying to learn the language and is giving it their best, so you don’t have to be worried about making mistakes or not finding the right words. I’ve taken multiple smaller offline language courses myself, and the best way to practice conversational skills is really to just… engage in conversations with others. However, a good teacher will help you correct your mistakes instead of just ignoring them like most (native) conversation partners, so they are the perfect opportunity to improve even faster. I think you should just give it a try!

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#16

I agree with the others that practicing output would be a good option. Aside from finding a teacher or language exchange partner you could also try to write sentences. For example a diary or summarizing plots of podcasts/shows/books etc.
you could try to post it on Journaly (but there aren’t that many Japanese speakers) or some other Plattform and Bunpo-check is also ok for catching more Obusses mistakes.

#17

It’s not really about making mistakes, it’s that you’re just not going to get nearly as much value out of a tutor when most of the effort you need to spend on output is getting taken up on just being able to even vaguely understand your conversation partner - a skill which you can much more easily and freely build on your own time. Like I said, my very first lesson/conversation actually went fairly smoothly, but I still find myself wishing I’d waited a bit longer, and the only reason I haven’t is that a chance for a trip to Japan ended up falling into my lap and I decided it’d be better to at least get a bit used to actually speaking Japanese before jumping into the proverbial fire.

If you’re not actively seeking to communicate with Japanese speakers, then there’s really no reason to push yourself. Read a lot, listen a lot, your brain will work it out and you will be surprised how much better your output becomes at the earlier stages just by exposing yourself to tons of input. If you find yourself really really wanting to communicate with people in Japanese right now, then that’s totally valid and a tutor can for sure help you with the output side of things, but if you just want to broadly Know Japanese, I don’t think there’s any need to rush that.

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