Books that are too hard

Japanese
#1

So recently I purchased Tobira: Gateway to Advanced Japanese.
I’m preparing to take the N3 here in July, and I am aware Tobira is often referred to somewhere between N3 and N2 level.

So I guess what my question is, should I try to finish N3 on bunpro before bothering with Tobira, or should I continue on with this book and just look up any strange grammar points I come across that the book does not cover?
Personally, so far in chapter 1 I am understanding everything except vocabulary (My worst subject) so I’m just concerned I would be placing my focus in the wrong area should I not specifically study for N3 for the N3 test, and instead study overall information.

My overall goal is to become more fluent in japanese, but I want to get this piece of paper to say I’m good in japanese for job purposes.

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#2

Bunpro works best with a textbook in my opinion. After you finnish a chapter in Tobira, add the grammer and vocab from that chapter to your reviews. The bunpro “decks” or “paths” list all the grammer by textbook chapter to make this easier.

For Vocab tobira has an official anki deck [#]とびらAnkiデジタルフラッシュカード | 漢字・語彙教材 | 漢字・語彙・音声・文法 | 上級へのとびら (9640.jp)
There are other Tobira vocab decks on anki web, and JPDB has a Tobira deck as well.

Unfortionatly I don’t know the best way to pass N3. If vocab is your worst subject, vocab is what you should specificlly study.

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#3

If it’s for passing N3, then shin kan zen master books are the way to go. Then if there’s a bit of grammar you’re not clear on from their short explanations, come here to BP. Which grammar belongs to which JLPT level is more of an art than a science, but word on the street is that shin kan zen books are the source of truth (IIRC).
My experience of N4 was that there was more grammar on BP than in shin kan zen book, good for generally learning of Japanese, but when cramming for an exam …

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#4

Despite working at Bunpro, I used almost nothing apart from Bunpro before starting working here, so feel I have a pretty unique standpoint.

In my opinion, Bunpro by itself, along with native material is the best. This is mainly because as an adult your brain is constantly saying ‘stop stop stop’ in response to completely new information, but with Bunpro, you can get the important information you need, and then do the rest of the study required through something that is actually enjoyable like games or books/manga etc.

This is a very very important part of learning to take notice of, because no matter who or what is selling the program, your brain is smart enough to be like ‘bro I am bored, if you want me to actually remember something, it better damn well be useful’. The way you make something useful is through seeing it in a real-world scenario. For example, I saw the grammar point なり like 10 times in N1, but it only took me 3 or 4 times of seeing it in real life to remember it 100%. Your brain is smarter than you. Give it a reason to remember!

Books aimed at Japanese kids are perfect for N3. Read as many as possible!

Last point: We cover more grammar points than most text books alone. If you read our descriptions and it still doesn’t click, read a textbook. If it REALLY doesn’t click, send us a report and let us know! We actively want to know if anything on the website is horrible so that we can fix it as soon as possible.

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#5

why even use tobira. I just used Bunpro and it definitely is a great way to study with. The reviews really reinforce a point in your mind

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#6

I know this is a bit off topic, but can I just say thank you to you guys for being so responsive to the community? Bunpro feels like exactly what I was missing from my studies for years, it’s filled in gaps that textbooks couldn’t and especially the wealth of example sentences are actually what makes my brain remember the points. Especially the kind of funny ones. I think it’s so good because you guys actually listen and interact with us learners to find out what we need.

On another note (sorry ADHD brain gonna ADHD), I wonder if it’s worth making a bunch of example sentences that are intended to be quite funny? Maybe I’m just not at a high enough level to have encountered them yet, though. :face_with_hand_over_mouth:

And with that, please continue on with what this topic is actually about lol.

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#7

Glad that you feel this way! Anyone that is not a native speaker that is learning the language will basically always be learning the language. I am actually more fluent in Swedish than I am in Japanese, but can say with 100% confidence that I am not a ‘native speaker’ in either of them. There’s nothing wrong with knowing you’re not perfect, and a lot of products imo try to pretend that they are.

As for the funny sentences, there aren’t heaps in grammar, but if you’ve read some of the vocab sentences, I guarantee that you will come across quite a few that will really catch you off guard. @Haru has a surprisingly dark sense of humor and I often almost spit out my coffee reading some of the examples she has written to go on the site :rofl:.

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#8

So i normally use a mix of bunpro and Renshuu. Together they are quite good. However the overall structure is lacking a little. Bunpro sometimes throws out really confusing examples with first learning a grammar point (like mixing together a few grammar points at once, or giving an exception sample sentence as a first review) and it throws me off on subsequent attempts.

Renshuu grammar just isn’t good, so i don’t use that. But their text analyzer is amazing for getting text from your books, kind of like a personal jpdb for vocab and kanji. So in that regard, it’s good.

I guess it really comes down to an integration standpoint. While bunpro teaches grammar mostly in isolation or words in isolation, it can be hard to see the relations between them.
Like you may see られる grammar point and just be confused until you piece it together. Even with the explanation i was confused.
It wasn’t until later i learned the relationships of られる or transitive vs intransitive verbs.

Bunpro is great at what it does, I just often need a bit of direction. I also get very bored of just doing 1 thing at a time. So only working on grammar or only filling in the blanks can get very boring to me to where I just want the reviews to go away. (And become lazy, backspace and re enter questions)

So that’s why I went ahead and got a textbook. Everyone learns differently. Plus actual paper guided practice is a very nice thing to have.

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