Bunpro should not use N+1 vocabulary in N grammar

Thank you for the update, that’s wonderful news! Looking forward to the official release of it!

That could be interesting, but likely very difficult to implement. Ultimately, I think vocab in Bunpro is basically treated independently from grammar. There are even clear overlaps showing up in different N levels for apparently no reason.

Ultimately, this doesn’t bother me that much. I just move on. But I think that integrating a little bit more would help the vocab learning experience. After all, seeing “advanced level” vocab once in a while might introduce you to it, but the retention will be poor. Meanwhile, drawing from a pool of known words (N5~N3) while doing grammar reviews for ~N3 level would also help you review vocab :smiley:

Thing is, if you’re trying to use the language in real world contexts, you’re constantly going to come in contact with words above your level. I’m N4 Level (I have the N3 Decks queued and am going through them because there are not set lists by the Japan Foundation and I have seen N4 practice questions include grammar like 中々 that is listed on here as N3), however, when I am talking to my Japanese friends, they’re gonna talk to me in the way they normally talk - for example: one of my friends used 休憩 with me in conversations a lot, even though 休み was the only word I knew for break I knew at the time, because that’s the word that felt the most natural for them to use in that scenario (it came up in a text conversation first, and then I proceeded to forget the word when speaking in person. I can’t remember what I thought 休憩 when I speaking but I have been embarrassed into remembering the correct meaning now :sweat_smile:). Sidenote: my friends have so much more faith in my Japanese language skill than I do… I once went for coffee with the friend mentioned above and they did not let me use English for three hours.

But even listening to music or TV shows, if you’re really trying to listen to things outside of a set course, you are gonna pick up a lot of words that are of a “different level”.

If you look at what is expected for each level of JLPT it is all about specific abilities how well you can use what you know, rather than know these x no. of words/y no. of grammar points/z. no of Kanji. It’s “Can you talk about yourself? Can you read a newspaper? Can you order food?”

I work in Healthcare so in order to talk about my day-to-day, I need to know a lot more words in that field, whereas another speaker with the same level of competence might know more about how financial things, or driving, or childcare than someone like me. It’s all context.

I apologise… this turned into a mini rant. Will delete if it sounds patronising or whiney.

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I disagree wholeheartedly with this suggestion. When you’re learning grammar, your aim is to be able to understand the structure of a sentence, and in real life, you’ll often be doing that in the face of unfamiliar vocabulary. You’re not meant to pause what you’re doing and go look up the word - as you often won’t get the chance to do that in real life, either. Your goal should be to understand the gist of the sentence.

It’s not only immensely helpful to the learning process, it’s also far more naturalistic. It’s training the skills you will actually use in real-life conversations with actual japanese people - skills such as prediction, inference, reading of tone, the kinds of skills that are both necessary to build and difficult to train without having real people to talk to. This is done not just in this program, but in teaching all languages worldwide, as it’s well-proven to be one of the strongest ways to learn.

It may seem frustrating sometimes, but as your work continues, you will eventually be grateful for the extra challenge, especially if you’re ever in Japan.

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It is a workflow that caters to me specifically. I’ve actually started using Migaku’s own flashcard system after years of using Anki. Don’t want to over pile on this topic though, I can give you some more info if you message me.

I cannot, conceptually, understand how people can have a problem with with vocab being mixed.

But if I had to guess, it would be because I cannot understand the concept of “leveled” or “tiered” words.
Formal, informal, common, uncommon, scientific and such I can understand. But how do you even categorize words by level. No matter how you look at it, whatever the list will end up being; it will be completely arbitrary.
I mean, how do you even consider putting: Death, Cat, People, Water, Ephemeral, Nefarious, Evil, Eloquent, Vivid, Prudent, Judgment, Decision, etc., into a tiered list?

Because at the end of the day, to create such a list is saying certain concepts, objects, and labels are “higher” or “lower” than others, and that doesn’t work. Because people live different lives and come across concepts at different times and will need those words to express those concepts at those times. Not when some academic arbitrarily decides it. Easiest example is death and “private love time” (I don’t know how prudent the censors are here). A child in the suburbs may not run into either of these concepts until they are in their teens. A child from a farm thought? They will know “all” about both before the age of 7.

So as I said, I cannot, conceptually, understand how people can have a problem with with vocab being mixed.

I like that it includes higher words, though do agree being able to click a word for meaning would be awesome.

That said, when I study, it comes with an English translation and I can use that to figure out the meaning of a word I don’t know. I haven’t had to pull up a separate dictionary.

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退職 is not N1 vocab.
It sits at around the top 8000 used words, which makes it N2-N3.

I think words are generally tiered based on their frequencies.

Use Yomitan, it can do all that and is free

Tell me you didn’t have to learn English as a second language without telling you didn’t have to learn English as a second language…

First, tiered lists are not based on children learning their primary language, they’re based on adults learning a foreign language. Secondly, if you think someone studying English as their second language should learn “Nefarious” before they learn “Cat” my only piece of advice is please don’t get into teaching. :slight_smile:

I do my reviews on the official mobile app.

I live in Japan, I’m not grateful of this extra challenge and I don’t think it helps with the learning process in the slightest. :slight_smile: You’re saying it does and it’s a, and I’m quoting, “well-proven” ways to learn. Since it’s well-proven I’d love to read these studies if you could share them with me!