Complex Grammar Points Need Better Time Budgeting

[kumamushi]

Would it be possible to size the study sessions per total structures instead of total grammar points, and highlight in each grammar point the number of different structures that need to be memorized? I made the mistake of going through 15 grammar points my first two days, but didn’t realize that some of them expect you to memorize multiple structures per. It’s also unclear sometimes which parts of the grammar point need to be memorized, such as the polite variation sometimes being off to the side instead of in the same list as the structures.

For instance, いい has four different structures, so it should count as 4 items in a given study session instead of 1. の on the other hand has only one structure, so that would still count as one study item. る-Verbs weighs in heavy with a grand total of 8, though admittedly they show up as pairs in review sessions.

I understand that it’s difficult to break down concepts without losing too much context, but this could at least help mitigate biting off more than one can chew. I’m used to WaniKani having a single tense / variation per study item.

[Asher]

Welcome to BP. I understand what you are saying. But perhaps instead of breaking this down into structures (tenses), it might be better to do some side reading of the things you are learning. (There are additional articles provided for each grammar point that goes into further detail).

する Is a little bit of a special case, and there are much more than 8 different structures. These are not structures per-se, as they are words appended to the end of the verb. Japanese only has a very limited number of these words that get appended to the end, so you will learn the vast majority of them very quickly.

Perhaps they could split it into tenses… But I feel like that may hurt you more than it will help you, because eventually you will come across points that can append to (any) tense. It will then feel like you need to study many different things, when really it is just one.

Instead of splitting everything up. Maybe there should be a few lessons in the very beginning that cover tenses by themselves, as this might eliminate 90% of the problem you are talking about.

[kumamushi]

Instead of splitting everything up. Maybe there should be a few lessons in the very beginning that cover tenses by themselves, as this might eliminate 90% of the problem you are talking about.

Oh, I wasn’t suggesting separate flash cards for each structure within a grammar point, just weighting flash cards based on complexity instead of giving them all the same weight of 1, and determining lesson queue length based on weight. But that compromise would also be very helpful in order to encourage people to build a better foundation early on instead of rushing through lessons.

[Asher]

Ah I see… Hmm I guess it is still difficult. The only real advice I can give is to do 3 new grammar points per day maximum, and less if you need.

Like most languages, the first things you learn that are supposed to be the easiest, are realistically the hardest.

I teach English atm in Japan and some of my students have amazing vocabularies but still cannot use ‘a’ or ‘the’ correctly half the time. Just the same as I still make mistakes with things like ‘もの’ or ‘こと’ at times. The beginning is always hard. Just take it slow and judge your understanding as you read the example sentences. If you get stuck a lot. Take a bit of extra time with those particular structures.

[kumamushi]

Thanks! Yeah, for now I’m taking my time with the first bundle of grammar points, making sure I better understand them before moving on. I’ll try building a mnemonic for the more complex ones.

[s1212z]

Oh, I wasn’t suggesting separate flash cards for each structure within a grammar point, just weighting flash cards based on complexity instead of giving them all the same weight of 1, and determining lesson queue length based on weight. But that compromise would also be very helpful in order to encourage people to build a better foundation early on instead of rushing through lessons.

Welcome to BP!

I think the ghost reviews help supplement this purpose. If you have a more complex grammar point, conceivably users will be more inaccurate. The circulating ghost reviews along with the next grammar point will give exposure on the same grammar point until cleared giving users extra practice before clearing. These grammar points definitely take extra time reviewing before burning and dictate lesson adding pace. Variable ghost level settings or troubled grammar can supplement this even further or you can add your own sentences.

As for variable weighting, everyone is coming from different experience levels and exposure so my challenged grammar is not everyone else’s (likewise for lesson counts and pace). If you are overwhelmed, you can just unlearn certain items until you have a schedule that works for you or you can use a book path that may help control your pace with a lesson plan (and get extra exposure on conjugations as such).

Ghost Reviews (Update! July 12, 2018)

Update: July 12, 2018 Choose Ghost Review Aggressiveness When Ghost Reviews are set to ‘ON’ in settings, a Ghost Review will be created for a sentence if you miss it once in your reviews. Set Ghost Reviews to ‘Minimal’ to only add a sentence to Ghost Reviews if you miss the same sentence more than once. Tweaks to Ghost Review SRS Ghost Review intervals are now 4 hours, 12 hours, 24 hours, and 48 hrs, meaning that you will see your Ghost sentence four times over the course of the next four da…

It’s also unclear sometimes which parts of the grammar point need to be memorized, such as the polite variation sometimes being off to the side instead of in the same list as the structures.

I wasn’t sure what you meant here, did you mean る verb grammar? These are all fundamental and necessary.

[kumamushi]

I wasn’t sure what you meant here, did you mean る verb grammar? These are all fundamental and necessary.

I was referring to がある, which has the formal/polite form in much smaller font as があります. This didn’t pop out at me when I was doing the original lesson, so I didn’t latch onto it. I was caught by surprise when I did the casual form and a review said “close, but we were expecting the polite form here”.

[s1212z]

Ok, I see what you are saying now. Unless it’s contextually necessary, alot of grammar points will go between polite and plain forms. Since alot of grammar revolves around verbs (and adjectives), this comes up over and over again which is good practice I think. I would almost equate the variety of adjective and verb endings as kana is for WK. It may help to read through the example sentences as you add to the que. Later grammar points may have a variety of nuances so I like to do this for every lesson just to see my potential problem areas.

[Jet]

I’m a long time user of Anki and also have been using Wanikani for a bit. The main difference I found when starting Bunpro, is that reviews are tough here and require much much more time than any other SRS system I have tried. Some might be easy and pass quickly, where as others will spawn lots of ghost reviews and drill through different conjugations you are not familiar with. I think the way to avoid these problems is simply to realize that reviews here are tough. Only take a few lessons at a time and wait to see how many reviews you get before you add more. Currently I’m aiming for around 30-40 reviews per day before I add lessons, and I will generally only add one Genki chapter at a time. Then depending on the review load that adds, I might wait anything from a few days to a few weeks before I add the next chapter.