and・with
Structure
- Noun + と + Noun
- Noun + と + Verb
[When listing nouns: と - Exhaustive, や - Non-exhaustive]
We use ‘to’ when listing everything and ‘ya’ when we don’t list everything, right?
1 Like
Hey 
Yes, that’s right.
So in other words, AとB simply means “A and B”, while AやB means “A and B among other things”.
So if you don’t want to list all elements of some group, but some examples you use や.
But remember it is only used with nouns.
とか is more flexible but less polite/formal.
1 Like
I don’t really understand what the exhaustive or non-exhaustive means. Help?
An exhaustive list is where you list everything in a given situation.
There are a pen and a pencil on the table:
テーブルの上にペンと鉛筆があります。
This means that the only things on the table are the pen and the pencil.
However, a non-exhaustive list would be listing only some of the things in a given situation.
The closest translation would be something like:
There are such things as a pen and a pencil (amongst others) on the table.
テーブルの上にペンや鉛筆などがあります。
Hope this is understandable.
3 Likes
Ah. That makes more sense. Thank you! 
私はフルーツとパンも食べます。
I eat fruit and (also) bread.
When a list is marked by も is it always inclusive to the entire list or just the last listed thing?
The difference between “fruit and (also) bread.” or “(also) fruit and bread.”
1 Like
Hi there, and sorry for the ‘very’ late reply!
も always highlights the last thing in the list as being something unique included as part of the group that is being listed before it. It also often highlights that it is not often part of the group being listed before it, but in this case is. Basically one of the two following things.
(A) is a group to which (Bも) is a part, but not the main topic.
(A) is a group to which (Bも) is surprisingly a part, and still not the main topic.
In both cases, whatever も highlights is not the ‘main’ thing. Just something small being added in for emphasis.
1 Like
Not sure where else to mark it, but this may be a good addition or example sentence for the と grammar point somewhere in Bunpro.
From a past N1 exam: この鍋は、炒め物に、揚げ物にと何にでも使えて便利です。
For whatever reason, I couldn’t wrap my head around this one at first. After discussing it with a Japanese native speaker and consulting the internet, I understood it as
この鍋は、A と (meaning ‘and’) B でも使えて便利です。
“As for this pot, you can use either A or B and it’s useful.”
where A = 炒め物に、揚げ物に, literally “towards fried food, towards deep fried food”
and B = 何に, literally “towards something.”
Am I crazy or is that kind of hard to grasp?