Does Bunpro vocab replace Wanikani?

I know learning kanji and vocab are different things, but there’s lots of lessons in wanikani that are pure katakana / hiragana, so it feels like there is crossover.

I do learn a lot with WaniKani kanji wise, but now that I’ve started doing vocab in bunpro it is a little much. 5 new wanikani things, 1 new grammar and a few vocab, 3 SRSs, it’s a bit much.

For people ‘ahead’ of me, does WaniKani get better/worse, and likewise do people forsee Bunpro’s vocab being more useful than Wanikani in the long term?

I dislike how Wanikani’s reviews are misleading, ‘12’ could be either 12 radicals, or 12 vocab (which is 24 screens), so the time taken up by Wanikani varies a lot and it’s quite ritual-disrupting.

I know an hour a day to solely learn JP isn’t much but I’ve learned SO MUCH taking my time and then passively using it when I read youtube comments, watch anime and listen to music. I’m already starting to break down uncomprehensible sentences into clauses, analysing tenses and trying to figure out dictionary forms of verbs people use, Bunpro is amazing, but WaniKani… I’m not really feelign the benefit of and considering dropping it.

Do people still consider WK + Bunpro a killer combination, or is the vocab beta a sign that Bunpro is a great all-in-one place (especially how it links to external resources, I LOVE that)?

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I’m only 200-ish Vocab reviews in on Bunpro (hopefully it’ll be able to replace using Anki for vocab), but I don’t think it can fully replace WK since BP doesn’t teach any Kanji whatsoever.

However, WK’s main focus on vocab is to reinforce the kanji that you’ve learned for that level, so I like to treat it as a purely kanji-learning tool, with new vocabulary as a bonus. I don’t see myself using BP as a replacement for WK’s vocab at the moment.

If you’re feeling overwhelmed by SRSs, maybe you could use Anki for Kanji (I’ve seen people praise RTK decks) and cut out WK if it’s too much for you?

I’m level 12 on WaniKani and I find myself overwhelmed by the amount of reviews on 3 SRSs + continuing the Genki II textbook as well, so you’re not alone in feeling there’s too much to do!

Sometimes it’s better to slow down one area in order to progress in another (ie. putting a pause on Kanji/vocab to work on grammar).

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Thanks for the reply :slight_smile:

Yeah, I kind of wish I could cut out the vocab reviews that are unrelated to the kanji I’ve been learning from Wanikani, kind of feels like wasted time when I want to focus purely on Kanji. I guess I could go back to Anki, but I switched to WaniKani + Bunpro because I just didn’t feel good with it.

Yeah, I’m trying to slow down but WaniKani doesn’t let me do just 1 bit of vocab, its either nothing or 5! I love that bunpro lets me do 1 bit of vocab at a time.

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if you go onto settings in wanikani you can change it from 5 to a different number

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I changed it to 3, better than 5! :slight_smile:

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Nope, there are some added recently, but 97% wanikani vocabs contain kanji.

Bunpro’s Cloze vocab questions are useful to learn how words are placed in phrases besides your usual immersion routine. I wouldn’t recommend using Bunpro for actually learning words, especially not in Close mode (it’ll be just a waste of time, it’s worthless to learn words without context or mnemonics, they won’t stick to one’s memory).
Wanikani does this job much better thanks to mnemonics. And immersion also rocks thanks to extra content surrounding new words. This is my personal experience though, YMMV.

If you feel overwhelmed by WaniKani, that’s ok. Per your text, you already know enough, so apply your knowledge immersing yourself in native content.
As for me, I dropped WK years ago on level 20, continued to use it again starting from this winter and plan to drop it again reaching level 40. I plan to continue using it again when I’ll feel I’m ready to learn the rest of it. Because one needs to apply knowledge or you’ll forget it. (Sometimes I stumble upon “unknown” words, but I have them burned in WaniKani :grin: )
And yeah, WaniKani is time-consuming and after doing it regularly it becomes boring at some moment. So don’t hesitate to drop it for a while or just stop learning new lessons, only doing your reviews. Don’t forget to turn on Vacation mode if you plan to drop it though (ceasing subscription also works as a vacation mode).

:100:

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I agree that the new kanji-unrelated vocab reviews on WK are a bit of a pain and wish they’d separate that feature into it’s own thing. Thankfully I think they’ve only implemented 80 or so kanji-less vocab.

That said, you in WK’s app settings, you can change the Lesson Batch Sizing from anywhere between 3-10 reviews, so hopefully that helps!

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Also to add on, I think bunpro and wanikani work really well together. I like wanikani for kanji and vocab, but the vocab is too slow to reach a high amount quickly.
So I can power through vocab in bunpro, even though I remember it better in wanikani.

Wanikani is great for picking apart kanji and helping me remember the readings too, even while chatting with my friends, I can remeber the kanji and then the reading to say out loud (although it takes a while), and then my memory for that word improves more.

For bunpro I’m just trying to get through vocab enough to recognise it in various situations. I like how fast it is, but I don’t remember it as well as wanikani.

Overall, I think they work great together, especially since you can add your wanikani API onto bunpro, and then sync so the wanikani words you know are marked as known on bunpro. (But then again I usually study Japanese for 3 hours + every day so maybe its different for less reviews)

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I agree its such a pain :sob:

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I think the benefit of Bunpro’s vocab system is it’s geared specifically to JLPT.
On Wanikani, you learn a whole load of random words just to fit the kanji you are on at the time, which aren’t in anything like JLPT order.

That said, Bunpro’s vocab system doesn’t totally correspond to all of the vocab that could possibly come up in any JLPT level because that’s very hard to know and predict since there aren’t any official formal vocab lists for any of the JLPT levels.

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Thanks for your replies everyone :slight_smile: I think I might rely less on Bunpro’s vocab thing, maybe use it for words that really throw me off, and mainly stick to WK as, like we have said, WK does have nice ways of teaching you how to remember the kanji and vocab etc.

Thank you! :slight_smile:

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I’m level 36 in Wanikani and I’ve started using it basically at the same time as Bunpro.

IMO WaniKani is very good at getting you started with Kanji, the first ~20 levels or so ease you into more and more complicated characters, it cherry-picks which readings to focus on, gives you some vocab to really drill the kanji into your brain. I think it’s very good for that.

WaniKani is terrible for vocabulary learning. I almost never remember the actual words I encounter on WaniKani when I meet them in the real world. I remember the kanji so often I can derive meaning from that, but very rarely will I immediately recognize a full word.

The issue is that WaniKani teaches you a ton of synonyms at once, transitive and intransitive versions of the same verb, and words that are not usually spelled in kanji in the real world. The words being taught vary wildly in terms of usefulness, it lacks some very common words (say, 問う or 食う for instance) and contains some really uncommon terms . At level 36 I know how to say “symmetry”, “academic inquiry” and “minister of foreign affairs” but not “a wall”. This isn’t much of an issue if you consider that the point is to teach you kanji and their readings, but it’s really poor if you try to efficiently learn vocab.

On top of that the example sentences are comically bad for the most part .

So as far as I’m concerned a proper vocabulary deck (on bunpro or elsewhere) is a really different thing. Studying kanji and studying vocab are two rather different (if somewhat overlapping) things, WK does the former ok (at least early on IMO) and does the latter terribly.

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For me wanikani no longer has a use. I only got to like like 12 or 13 in wanikani to start with mind you. But I really just didn’t like how restrictive wanikani is. You don’t get to pick what you are going to learn, the order is worthless. The radicals have fake names so it’s kinda teaching you wrong things. The mnemonic devices I would actively try to ignore because they seemed so contrived.
And then bunpro added vocab, which you can pick, there are loads of words. You can learn them anyway you want. If you just want to regonize kanji there is a mode for that. If you want to be able to be able to learn it more and type it, there is a mode for that. If you don’t want to learn a specific kanji, you can just skip it.
There is also a bunch of them and you can add as many as you want. For me it’s really good for general exposure. As for replacing anything, that’s hard to say because each person has different goals. Personally I am a big fan of the vocab.

I’ve added all of N5 and 700/1100 of N4 at this point. Over probably like 6 months. I’ve actually paused adding grammar until my vocab catches up.

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Hi @ashe_xo, thanks for getting in contact here on the forums! We are lucky enough to have a community here with a really wide range of opinions and experiences, so you’re bound to find something that resonates with your learning style for sure.

For my own personal opinion, coming from a learner of the language, and not as a Bunpro staff member, I would say that the biggest limiting factor in being able to learn new vocabulary effectively in Japanese is kanji knowledge. What I mean by this is that, once you have a strong base of kanji, the rate that you are able to learn new words increases dramatically… I should say ‘quickly’ instead of ‘effectively’, there are sure to be many effective things if speed of acquisition is not super important.

In languages based on alphabets, there are very few clues within new words about the meaning of something. Of course, there will be common structures like un-, non-, -ness, etc etc which tell you what kind of word you’re looking at, but if the word is ‘vrolness’, unless we know what ‘vrol’ means in the first place, the -ness is not so helpful. Japanese and other logographic languages are a little bit different. Once you know a kanji, you will be at a massive advantage every time you see a new word that contains that kanji. It’s basically like having a picture to remind you of the meaning of a word every time you see it. This has a big positive, and a big negative.

The big positive - Once your kanji knowledge is sufficient, you will be able to learn/retain new words at a pace that would be a lot higher than most other languages in terms of reading.

The big negative - Because the kanji always reminds you of the meaning of the word, you’re cheating yourself out of training your brain to remember what a word means based on sound alone. This will mean that if you’re learning vocab quickly, you’d benefit from doing some pure listening practice as well. A good example of this would be something like ‘balcony’ in English, if I read the word, I sound it out in my head as bal-ko-nee, giving me an opportunity to remember the word based on the way it looks and the way it sounds at the same time. However for Japanese, if I see the word 公式 ‘official’, and if I already know the kanji really well, my brain is gonna know the meaning regardless of whether or not I even remembered that the reading was こうしき. This causes listening to lag behind unless specifically trained (at least it did for me).

Can Bunpro replace Wanikani - Right at this present moment, I don’t think so. The context sentences that we have would be fantastic for solidifying the meanings of words and forming deep memories with them, but that will require quite a bit of time investment for reading as you’re learning. I would however say that you would still get massive benefit out of following the JLPT paths, as most of the words are very common and very useful. I personally frontloaded kanji study before I focused really hard on vocab, so I am a bit biased toward that method.

You will also have to decide whether or not you like mnemonics as well. They absolutely work for some people, but not for others. The goal of most mnemonics is to forget it eventually and replace it with the underlying information, so for me they don’t work too well. Just seems like an extra thing I need to remember just with the goal of forgetting it later.

TLDR: Perhaps we should work on making a vocab deck that follows Wanikani kanji learning :face_with_monocle:.

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I was thinking about your last bit. About a deck that follows WaniKani.
I personally don’t think that is needed from this website. Bunpro isn’t sub-servant to wanikani or anything. I don’t really see the two services as competitors or anything since the service they provide are pretty different but…
Well quite frankly is someone really wanted to learn kanji in the wanikani order there is a fantastic service available for those people already. It’s called WaniKani!

So that’s just my two cents on it

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As someone that made it to level 60 on WaniKani (over 4 years), I just wanted to reiterate what most others are saying - WaniKani was amazing for helping me learn to read kanji. However, I forgot probably 75% of the vocabulary I learned (likely because of my slower than average pace as well as the fact that many of the vocab you learn through WaniKani I have yet to see while consuming native materials).

After WaniKani, I realized my vocab was poor, so I ended up (1) doing the JALUP sentence i+1 flashcards which helped my vocab tremendously and (2) I started to read a lot.

I would say that doing flashcards with just the vocab word personally doesn’t do it for me unless it is a simple noun. I usually need it to be in a sentence to really remember it well. I can’t speak to bunpro vocab, since I only use bunpro to drill grammar points, but I would imagine it wouldn’t be super effective for me for that reason (also, IMO, most of the sentences on bunpro are needlessly long/complex to illustrate the grammar points but maybe I’m in the minority here).

In terms of resources that I have found most useful to build my vocab (1) sentence cards such as JALUP or Clozemaster and (2) reading (or listening) a lot to native materials have been my main 2 approaches.

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As someone that has only ever made it to Wanikani level 13, but has over 1000 vocab items studied on bunpro, I can tell you that not knowing the kanji isn’t an issue.

You will learn to recognize the word/combination of kanji, and know the meaning and the pronunciation (at least if you do it like I do and only mark the answer correct if you remembered both the reading/meaning). You will also be able to recognize kanji that you “haven’t learned” as they start to appear in multiple words.

There’s a lot of kanji on here I never learned on wanikani, again I never made it very far in wanikani, but it hasn’t hindered my learning of vocab at all. I can even recognize kanji, what their general meaning is, and predict how they will be read based solely on words I’ve previously learned here on bunpro.

It’s just srs repetition learning like wanikani, so if you can learn on wanikani, you can learn vocab on here without wanikani.

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Thank you for your replies everyone, especially you @Asher :slight_smile: I do think I find value in WK at this current moment and so rather than trying to divide my attention across 3 decks, I’m going to stick with WK and BP grammar, and only use vocab sparingly. I might go back to BP vocab eventually but now I feel like I get the most value from the kanji side of WK and the grammar side of BP.

I think vocab will come passively from BP’s examples, tests and external resources as well as all the JP things I do outside of my learning sessions :slight_smile: I hope others also found this thread useful since a lot of the discussion of ‘WK vs Bunpro’ is quite dated now and doesn’t factor in all the cool new changes or the vocab stuff!

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Sounds like this is mostly converged but I thought I’d share a few thoughts.

First, it depends on your goals. If you want to be able to read novels or newspapers, knowing a lot of kanji is going to be a lot more critical than for listening comprehension and speaking.

That said, knowing kanji can give you a leg up on retaining spoken material too. At some point, the kanji function as their own mnemonic devices to connect sound to meaning. This is expanding on Asher’s point: while the clearest advantage from kanji in vocab acquisition comes from visual recall, there’s an element of auditory recall as well.

I found a similar dynamic at play with WK vocab. A great example is 自分 – “oneself”. WK alone was pretty useless at understanding what this actually means. However, once I saw it used a few times in native material, it was totally clear. Now, it’s hard to know exactly how it would have played out if I hadn’t been exposed to the WK content, but I’m pretty sure getting the same level of understanding would have taken a lot more exposure and trips to jisho without that foundation.

Summing up:

  • You’ll need to consume/produce native material aligned to your goals
  • Learning new vocab/grammar/kanji from native material requires sufficient context
  • Tools like WK and BP let you build up useful context deliberately and efficiently
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so I’m kinda biased on this as someone who tried WK, found it actively dissuaded me from learning after a few months and provided me with comparatively inefficient tools for actually reading, and is now very firmly in the “learn words not kanji” camp - but for me personally, that sort of time ended up being far better spent on reading/listening to content in Japanese than going through flashcards. I do have a sizable personal vocab deck, but I like to add words that I actually encounter in-context, since that just… works better for me (though I also admit that hand-building a deck is its own timesink).

If you find that WK’s mnemonics work really well for you, or that its structure is sufficiently satisfying that it motivates you to continue, those are good enough reasons to use it, I don’t wanna say that WK is useless. It’s just not 100% necessary to have a Kanji-focused resource - especially when that resource will absolutely not help you read words like 行方.

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