Embracing slow learning

As some of you may or may not know, I’ve been studying for a very long time. If you count the time I actually got interested in Japanese, (14 years old) to now (41 years old) , for all intents and purposes I should be a master, or at least fluent. I’m not for several reasons, too many to explain all at once, but I guess I’ll try.

If I could describe my Japanese knowledge in one word, it would be “scattered”. Over the years I have tried so many ways to learn Japanese, from textbooks, apps, AJATT, sentence mining, and even studying abroad. In the end, my Japanese is very much functional, but at times lacking in fundamentals and fluency. It’s kind of like watching Dennis Rodman play basketball; it looks a little sloppy, and lacks finesse, but he’s getting the job done, dyed hair and all. He also had the tendency to miss practice and disappear for months on end. Something that I and many who learn are all too familiar with. And that’s what happened with Japanese the first 15 or so years of my journey. I would just disappear for months on end until something pulled me back in.

Most of my life I’ve felt this sort of sense of urgency about Japanese. “If I’m not fluent by the time I’m 24, 27, 30, 32, things aren’t going to happen”. If I’m not fluent, I can’t help anyone, what use am I to anyone when it comes to Japanese? I want to be the person who can answer every question, knows every word, can recognize even the most obscure Kanji. And to be fair, there are some people who thought I was that person because of the level of knowledge I did have. To people within my weekly study group, I am still that beacon of knowledge. People believed it, but I didn’t because I knew it wasn’t true. I was the one who wanted to believe it.

But this past year or so was the first time I didn’t feel like that anymore. Praise, acceptance and admiration are qualities that young people yearn for. It’s part of the reason that they’re so quick to talk about their accomplishments, but are hesitant talking about their failures and weaknesses unless sympathy is what they are seeking. I know it’s not just exclusive to young people, but this is especially prevalent in one’s youth.

These past couple years, I started to realize that I may never actually become fluent. And while that may sound like a shock, or giving up, or even a death sentence to some, I can say that it is a reality for a lot of people. Growing up in an immigrant family in the US, you sometimes see family members who live here all their lives but never really become fluent in English despite their best efforts. To be fair, some of them don’t try to learn as much as they should, but they have to at least know a certain degree of English. I’ve known people who lived in Japan for years and still struggle with Japanese, and never really properly learn it. And I know that there are going to be people that read this and have a “solution” for me or diagnose a “problem” that is their one size fits all solution like every YouTuber, language influencer and blogger has. But heres the thing, most of these solutions are based on one’s own experience rather than the experience of many. When a proper, funded study is done, it is done with a controlled group of several individuals over a course of months, even years. Each person is different and until you walk in their shoes, it’s hard to pinpoint what will work for them and what won’t. Some people have the will, time, money and resources to seek that on their own, and others don’t.

Being a leader in the local Japanese learning community has given me some reverence and purpose. On a weekly basis I host study sessions, help beginners, learn along with intermediate learners, and speak with natives. I’ve met a ton of amazing people and am able to get a great perspective on learning seeing that everybody from students, teachers, essential workers, artists, musicians, engineers and even lawyers have been part of the group. The wide range of people who are interested in Japanese as a language is astounding.

In my older age I have learned to just embrace the fact that I can read, write, speak and understand at the level that I can. That I can read plenty of manga with some lookups, but not too many. That I am able to read through Famitsu articles (not easily) but with enough knowledge to enjoy them. That I can have dinner and enjoy a subtitle-less episode of anime and annoy my spouse with what this word means and what that context meant. That I’m able to go on trips to Japan without any real worry about communication issues, and can even go into little mom and pop shops that don’t have an eigo menu with little issue. In other words, I’ve learned to enjoy what I have rather than what I don’t have. It’s a philosophy that I not only apply to Japanese, but other parts of my life as well.
I may not be fluent yet, I may not be able to read Murakami flawlessly, I sometimes struggle with understanding conversations and often have to look things up. The Japanese people that I do speak with on a weekly basis correct me, sometimes on things I should know, but I swallow my pride because they show up to help me. I sometimes have to backtrack because I give the wrong information about grammar or vocab in study groups. And the the cardinal sin (finding my eyes gravitating towards English subtitles at times)

Japanese for me has been a lifetime struggle of my mind telling me “This is too hard, you’ll have much more fun doing this in English”. And me being like “Japanese is fun, I may struggle through it a bit, but that’s part of the fun”. As humans, we are riddled with the burden of ambition and the glorification of success and results. Success and results being a byproduct of our mostly capitalist society that favors pride and status over happiness and well-being. We use things like language trackers, standardized tests, reading catalogs, study logs and so forth to not just mark our success in Japanese, but by extension, our value as human beings. But when was the last time you spoke to a Japanese person and they asked “How many words, and grammar points do you know?” They don’t really care, at least not in the technical sense, and whether I was at a point that I knew just 100 or 5000 words, Japanese people have always been thrilled to communicate with me because I put forth the effort, an effort that bridged a gap that wouldn’t be there had I not made the effort or continue to make it. Japanese is exciting not because the amount of words I know, but how I use them. Not by my ability to read books in Japanese, but the lessons I learn from them. Not because I’m told how good I am, but how I can infinitely improve.

I am not fluent in Japanese, and that’s okay for now. It doesn’t mean I can’t enjoy what I do know. But it also doesn’t mean that it gives me the excuse to not continue to get better. I’ll allow myself to enjoy the ride, as it has been a long one and will probably be for most people. Ideally, we would all love to learn it in a year, but very few people can do that no matter what language influencers trying to sell courses and get subs tell you. Enjoying this long, scary, beautiful, eye-opening, risk-taking ride with as much joy as I can have may be the only reason I’m still on it.

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Thank you for your testimony. I found it very interesting and inspiring.

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Thank you for the post, it has definitely given me much to think about. If I may ask: what is your definition of fluent? Because from where I’m sitting it sounds like you are there. My personal goal/definition has been getting to a point where I could go to a movie theater in Japan, buy a ticket, and understand the movie. I may not know every word at that time, but I don’t know every word in my native tongue. I learn new words in my native language all the time. So at what point would you say you are fluent?

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To be honest, I think everyone has a different definition of fluency.

For me personally, it’s speaking without having to stop to think about what you’re saying for a long period of time over an abundance of subjects. Not all subjects, but most things. It’s reading without having to look up words constantly or understand media in a similar manner.

Currently, I still have to think about what I have to say on several topics. In one of the past sessions, one native was asking me questions about societal issues, thoughts on diversity, things like that. Boy, did I struggle, but it was a good exercise.

Being able to buy a ticket and understand a movie in Japan is still quite a benchmark I feel. About a year and half ago I saw Godzilla Minus One at a theatre in Kabukichou. It wasn’t an easy movie for me to understand and if I’m being quite honest, some things went over my head, but I still enjoyed it.

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Just saying the way the English language changes, I’d find this to be a difficult language in any language unless you’re constantly keeping up with news and politics.
And let’s take sports for instance, I know basics, but to anybody that watches sports, I’d be lost. I live with a (semi) professional skier (parks) and the conversations that I’m in sometimes, well I have no idea what they’re talking about. It’s the jargon of industry.
Anyway, sounds like you’ve had fun with it, which starting at 38 myself, that’s all I’m really aiming for. Nothing quick, but not taking it necessarily slow either. While I’m chasing proficiency through JLPT and when I get a little further to have some conversations, and be able to think in Japanese, I’ll be pretty satisfied.
Which brings me to that, can you think in Japanese? Or are you still translating your thoughts into Japanese and vice versa.
…that’s all I can think of for a rudimentary level of fluency.

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The majority of the time I still think in English. But in the midst of a Japanese conversation or when deep in content, I do think in Japanese. Sometimes I even have dreams where I’m speaking it.
Seeing how different Japanese is structurally, I think it’s necessary. Most of the students I see struggle with basic grammar structures is because they are still translating in their heads.

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I get crazy dreams, but nothing in Japanese yet. I’ll look forward to that lol. Sounds like I have the right mindset about developing my language skills though. Although, I know I’m still quite a ways from being able to think in Japanese.

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It is definitely possible, I try to do it sometimes, but it isn’t necessarily natural and requires quite a bit of effort on my part. For what it is worth, Japanese is now my third language, but I predominantly think in English with bits of my second language mixed in since that is very similar to the way my friends, family and I speak casually with each other. When I’ve tried exclusively thinking in Japanese, I was extremely surprised at the almost maddening levels of silence in my head. It was as if someone had turned my internal monologue off and the only thoughts I could produce were pretty basic ones with pretty long intervals in between. I still do it as an exercise, but it ends up taking a lot out of me.

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Guess that’s a little deeper than what I imagine. I can’t imagine thinking exclusively in one language, but in regards to using the language rather than translating it. The little bit of Arabic I learned in GCC countries, after I got used to the meaning of what was needed to communicate, I wouldn’t “translate” it anymore.

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Aaaah I see. If that’s the case then you will likely reach that point eventually. These days when I want to say something. I kind of get a flash thought of what I want to convey and it just comes out the way it should. I’m not actively translating each word before saying it. Of course this is dependent on how complex the message I want to convey is. If it is pretty complex I sometimes need to stop mid sentence to either find the right word or to get to the correct conjugation. Other than that it is pretty instantaneous. I also noticed that I stopped actively trying to translate the language when I’m listening. The meaning just kind of pops into my head when I understand what the other person is saying

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“Fear not the man who learned 10000 things in 1 hour, but the man who learned 1 thing in 10000 hours.” - Some philosopher, probably

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はい、そです!

The perfect phrase doesn…
頑張って勉強したけどなにもわからない。:rofl:

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I might not be fluent in any language by your definition, not even in my mother tongue, Spanish :rofl: And I’m okay with it. It’s just the way it’s always been for me and many members of my family. Talking to my mom was like trying to solve a riddle cause she would skip essential words because she couldn’t bring them to mind fast enough for the conversation to flow; I, on the other hand, pause to think and/or try to explain it in a different way (using body language if possible). It seems to be getting worse as I add more languages! Just another perspective.

In case there is someone like me out there wondering if it’s worth it to even try, in my opinion, it is! I’m not fluent in Japanese (by my definition) yet, but I’m enjoying the journey.

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