てあげる Form

I’ve studied this a couple of times but I always find it tricky. So I thought maybe someone here could give a better explanation for its use…

ペーターさんに消しゴムを貸してあげてください。
ペーターさんにぇ氏ゴムを貸してください。

I don’t understand the use of てあげて here. I mean isn’t 消してください meaning to lend something already?

My understanding is that てあげる just adds a nuance of doing a favor for someone. It doesn’t necessarily change the meaning, just emphasizes that the action being done is a favor.

So you could interpret the two sentences like this:

ペーターさんに消しゴムを貸してあげてください。
Do Peter a favor and lend him the eraser.

ペーターさんに消しゴムを貸してください。
Please lend Peter the eraser.

There is some additional conversation on the grammar point discussion below which may be helpful as well.

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Yeah. Maybe what confuses me se is the hint give

Because when I see “please lend” my head goes to just 貸してください. I wish BunPro was more consistent with these hints. Because it can sound like another answer would suffice.

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This is another one that fries my brain a bit

Because the 持ってきて it’s already bring so I usually miss this one and add 持ってきてくれた

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Eren is marked with ga, he’s the one giving, so it cannot be kureru anyway. Also it might be helpful to you if you turn on full english translation with additional nuance. Having these minimal hints is a guessing game more often.

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I turned on full english translation with nuance. Hope it helps… .This one here for example:

Why not just 手伝ってくれない? Why you don “give help” “without being asked” ? is that it?

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Honestly I think you are overthinking this.
Japanese is a language with many ways of expressing the same things.
てあげる and co do sound kinda repetitive for westerners, but for japanese they just express different nuances and feel completely natural.
てください on its own is completely fine, but you should also be aware of the nuances てあげる、てくれる, ともらう bring to the table as those will come up a lot when listening to native speakers or japanese media.
As for clearing bunpro, take a look at the hints, most of the time there is some additional info such as (as a favor) or (on my behalf), indicating the use of てあげる。
Hope this is somewhat helpful.

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Ya I have issues with their hints also. They seem to like using the literal translation that they give us for a different grammar point as a hint a lot. I try and report them to suggestions occasionally but am normally only given a polite “No” when it comes to changing anything.
Why a hint wouldn’t hint towards the correct grammar point they’re looking for is beyond me. BUT on the flip side of it, the world isn’t perfect and people do actually translate the same things differently so while frustrating I guess it does have that defence. Personally I don’t actually know if the hints need an update or if they should be left vague like that to keep our learning broad.

But I do sympathize with you.

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I agree with you, @Wippo. I do know I am overthinking it. I guess my confusion comes more from the hints sometimes. I feel frustrated having the full hint on cause it feels like I’m cheating I guess? But I’ve come to terms with it for this particular set of grammar and it has been useful.

I think so as well @Superpnut. I’ll report stuff sometimes but usually I don’t get a reply back. I wish there was a way for people to upvote features or issues.

Bunpro has helped me a lot already. I will continue using it and I hope it keeps getting better :slight_smile:

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I am fairly sure you know these tips, but I post them anyway just in case.
First of you can gradually reveal the hints by tapping the space bar when you selected no hints as your default. So going from none, to minimum, to full sentence (and loop) in 2 inputs.
Second you can always try just using the minimum input and using the oops button (backspace on keyboard) in case you did wrong because you put ください instead of 上げてください etc.

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@Superpnut @scarrera @Wippo

Thanks for expressing your thoughts on the hint system guys, and for brainstorming some ideas together! My main recommendation for the time being would be to use the ‘nuance’ hint as your primary hint in regard to giving the clearest picture of what the expected grammar structure is. These renewed hints have been designed specifically to have very consistent language, so that users get used to seeing the same words in relation to the same grammar points.

I actually reset my own account recently and have been going through 10 new grammar points a day making sure these nuance hints are consistent, along with changing any sentences that require something in the answer that is almost impossible to guess.

I agree that having the English can feel like cheating, but with the main focus on being recalling the Japanese, whether you see the English or not, you’re still forced to do the heavy lifting in that regard. So you definitely shouldn’t beat yourself up about it. There are many cases (especially as you get further and further through the grammar points) that a multitude of answers become possible, and not having the English/nuance will just prolong your review experience exponentially, as more than 10 answers could potentially be perfectly acceptable.

In regard to how to approach reviewing, I have had the most personal success with this method.
1- Read the Japanese, then read just the blue English. (If you cannot solve it, move to #2)
2- Read the nuance hint in orange text to get a better picture of the grammar. (If you cannot solve it move to #3)
3- Read the whole English translation. (If you cannot solve it, move to #4)
4- At this point it is definitely our fault, and you should report it to us so that we can add a more appropriate hint.

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Just to be clear, I wasn’t (and I don’t think any of were) saying the hint system was bad. Or it’s application wasn’t good. It’s just occasionally a bit inconsistent. It isn’t a problem at all and I don’t think you’d ever make everyone in the world happy with each sentence.

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I demand you make everyone in the world happy with each sentence.

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Oh don’t worry! I didn’t think that at all! I am genuinely happy that you all were discussing the system together! I only mentioned the way the hint system is ‘supposed’ to work so that you have a stronger idea of anything that you think we can do better in that regard. :blush:

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Didn’t know about the backspace option! Neat! I’m okay with tapping space to get a more detailed hints now.