Getting better at speaking? Practice suggestions?

Japanese
#1

So, I’ve been learning Japanese for the last seven months or so, using all the tools that are frequently discussed here - Bunpro (obviously), immersion by listening and reading, some kanji practice using Anki. Standard stuff. But I’m taking the family to Japan over the summer, and I would love to have at least some ability to speak.

Problem is…I can’t. I’m fairly solid with N5 and a little N4 vocab and grammar when I read and do exercises and listen. But I’m getting very frustrated that I can’t seem to turn that into speech. I’m taking iTalki lessons with a Japanese tutor (Rei-sensei is amazing!), but even when covering things that I know I know (“I like Japanese food,” “I eat breakfast at 7:00”), I struggle to talk. The reason I’m using iTalki is to get some practice in conversation, but so far I’m struggling so much that we can’t even have the simplest of conversations.

Does anyone have any suggestions or recommendations for tools or exercises for practicing speaking? I live in Miami, so I don’t really have any local options for speaking with people in person. I’ve started reading all my Bunpro sentences aloud so I can practice pronunciation, since some words get a little tongue twisty (“It was warm at 7:00” is not easy to say!) - but I think my real problem is with real-time recall. Any tips?

8 Likes
#2

Shadowing is really great in my experience. It gets you used to saying common phrases, so you have a better muscle memory. There are loads of resources on Youtube etc, Pimsleur can be good for situational recall… but yeah, practicing output is key.

My little tip that for tongue twisters - since Japanese is (theoretically) evenly spaced syllables, try tapping a beat as you speak the words slowly. This really helps me get my tongue around certain conjugations.

Edit: it might seem like I am ignoring your point about recall, but I genuinely think not having to give mental effort to sentence creation allows you to respond more reflexively.

6 Likes
#3

Using this app a bit to get more practice. The lessons are good. The free talk (aka community driven roleplay scenarios) is better.

edit: is a paid for app

#4

Thanks, alismith - I’ll try some shadowing exercises. I’ve been trying to incorporate a more “just keep speaking” to all my reading, so that will help.

jrmr50 - I had downloaded Speak and went through the handful of lessons that were outside the paywall, and I thought it was helpful. But I was a little hesitant to keep going once I got passed the free content. It’s not cheap, and I couldn’t find any reviews on the Japanese content. How have you found the Japanese? Some of the review of the app noted that it was very solid for English and Spanish, but less so for other languages - so I didn’t want to shell out for a paid version if the Japanese wasn’t fully built out yet…

3 Likes
#5

One of the things that helped me most when I first went is to study and memorize typical conversation patterns you’ll get a lot. As an example I once googled the best way to get help when you’re looking for something and found なになにをさがしているんですがー (I’m looking for X but…) and I’ve never forgotten it because I used it all the time. Similar for when I learned to order at Starbucks the first time.

This goes for regular conversations too. Japanese people will often ask you the same questions so get ready to be able to say things like where you’re from, what you’re doing in Japan, things you like in Japan, how you learned Japanese.

This is one of those situations that ChatGPT comes in handy. I recently asked “give me a sample conversation between a host and a Japanese family that just arrived in the airport” and I could understand the natural phrases that are used in that scenario.

TL;DR - target learn some expected conversations using AI or online blogs

1 Like
#6

7 bucks a month for AI data harvesting voices? sign me up!

JKin, actually not a bad price considering voice processing and the AI tokens used probably means their margins are quite low. (or they do the gym method of praying 1,000 people sign up but only like 10 people actually go) it appears to have a week trial too. I may give it a go.

As for the main topic, I unashamedly used Rosetta Stone for my break through into speech. Admittedly, it’s very archaic nowadays what with AI and stuff, but it gets you speaking with a “good enough” pronunciation. Only times it directly says I’m bad is with られる (passive) forms because as a certain Knox from Dr. Seuss would say “I can’t blab that blither blather, sir. it makes my tongue quite lame, sir.” I’d recommend it if you already have Rosetta Stone, but if not it’s probably not worth the price of even a month.

1 Like
#7

People have already mentioned some things, the Italki is probably helping but also if you got discord/pc try hopping into Japanese servers. Im in a Jap/Eng exchange one and sometimes when I remember Ill lurk and have small talk.

Also, keep a journal. One thing about language is your memories are in a language, since you live in Miami(Im sorry btw, Stain on Florida) I assume you speak natively English and Spanish. So you gotta translate memories and experiences too which makes it hard. So write down basic shit about your day and thatll get into your head as well how to form sentences about daily activities. Start simple, and slowly work your way up from there.

Output is a whole ass skill of its own that takes practice and is the biggest pain because of course in your native language youre smart but then suddenly you feel stupid and it is difficult. Keep it up man

2 Likes
#8

My library has copies of Pimsleur and other conversation audiobooks through Libby, so maybe OP should check out if their local library has a similar offering. They tend to be pretty popular, though, so you might have to place them on hold for a while.

Also, maybe my experience as an ethnically East-Asian person will differ from OP’s, but at least in Tokyo, most people didn’t really want to interact with me (in Japanese) once they found out I wasn’t Japanese :confused: Outside of Tokyo folks were a lot friendlier, so maybe it is a big city thing.

2 Likes
#9

Work on your conjugation. I recommend Conju Dojo in the App Store. I’ve been using it daily for a couple months now and I feel waay more comfortable forming sentences.

#10

Im not Ethnically asian looking at all, but I think thats just a city thing. One reason I hate going into the bigger cities is people will almost outright refuse to even use Japanese with me, so we get into a bit where Im stumbling through Japanese and they struggle with English and its like, I just wanna ask you for a recommendation or how to find something Im looking for. This isnt difficult and my pronunciation isnt garbage (I think)

1 Like
#11

I don’t know if anyone does this is me or other people have done this but here’s some things that might help you that I have done:

1.) For about 15min-ish+ try talking to yourself to describe how feel (I.e. you feel angry because boss gave you overtime), your reaction to something you done (I.e. you finally got your mom’s present for her birthday and what your going to do next), describing something (I.e. what does the tree in front of you look like), etc.

2.) Try singing. This is weird part but I have a weird thing where I can easily remember and sing to a song from Ado or Mrs. Green Apple for example and sing it back/say something in the beat of that song. Idk if works for others but it works for me especially for studying and remembering stuff.

It takes time and practice in the end but keep doing the italk and try to reach out. Hopefully this helps and more you practice, the easier it will get.

1 Like
#12

My tutor is teaching me with marugoto. A textbook like Genki or Marugoto will have speaking exercies. If you read the prompts and take some notes durring the week, you will be able to have the simplest of conversations

For real time recall, talk in Japanese. it does need to be out loud to work. Sorry, it’s hard but it works

I also checked the pimslur tapes out of my local library for speaking and listening practice.
For shadowing, I have the Japanese subtitles on and try to read out loud along with the show. reading your bunpro sentences helps a bit too.

If you are sticking to tourist areas or cities, you will be fine. Even if you are going skiing in the mountians (I went to Hakuba last year) if they get any amount of tourists they will have signage in Japanese.

#13

Perhaps you could join some online language practice groups. That’s at least what I do for my own speaking practice.

There’s various Meetup groups that hold events to practice Japanese (and English). Typically they advertise it on Meetup but hold the event on Zoom.

The one’s I participate in are free although they will ask for donations occasionally to support the Meetup and Zoom subscription costs. I’ve only seen it happen in one of the groups, and they apparently hadn’t done it in a few years. Donating is optional though so no pressure there.

Anyone can attend but they’ll typically make sure that your name is on the list of Meetup attendees before letting you into the Zoom room. They have limits on how many can join so that it doesn’t get out of hand so you’ll want to sign up.

When you join a session it will typically break out into smaller groups of 3-4 in separate rooms. Half the time will be in Japanese and half of it in English. Usually 15-20 minutes in each language. Since they are (small) groups you don’t have to carry the conversation entirely on your own with just a partner, and the language swaps 15-20 minutes in so it’s nice for bursts of practice without overworking your brain.

Everyone in these sessions is there to learn and of varying levels so I’ve found them really welcoming. Both the Japanese people joining to learn English and English speakers looking to learn Japanese are open to questions, so you might be able to ask for tips on how handle different situations in Japan too.

There are quite a few with different times and days so depending on your time zone you’ll want to choose one(s) that fit your schedule. I actually think there is a Miami or Orlando based MeetUp you could join, although I’m not positive if all of their activities or online or also incorporate in person as well. I recommend putting in the other nearby big cities near where you are or big cities like NYC, Toronto, places on the West US or even some Japanese Cities (Tokyo, Yokohama, Fukuoka, etc.) Then search for English Japanese Exchange, Japanese Language Exchange, Japanese and English, Japanese English, 日本語交流会, and other Japanese phrases. You might try swapping & for and as well.

1 Like
#14

I recommend HelloTalk–it can feel a bit clunky and the ads can be annoying, but it’s free and you can either try chatting with individuals and build up towards being language partners or just try joining random voice rooms.

I haven’t tried the voice rooms, but have had decent success with meeting folks who want to practice speaking together over calls. It also has a voice message option, though I feel like it’s harder to find people who want to use that option.

You’ll definitely run into a lot of accounts that disappear or ghost you, but I think it’s worth it to hopefully find someone to practice frequently with.

Best of luck!

#15

I’m really curious about this phenomenon. Everyone talks about it, but I have never really experienced it. My Japanese level is not great, but even in Tokyo, everyone talks to me in Japanese. I’m not sure if it’s because what little I do know sounds quite fluid, or if my age (40) makes me look as though I should know more. Ironically, the only time I do seem to get spoken to in English is when I am with my wife. She is Japanese but maybe living overseas makes her seem more foreign now, and as a pair I think people hedge that we’re tourists. But yeah, on my own, 99% of all interactions are in Japanese.

#16

A lot of people swear by narrating/ talking to yourself in your house.
I know @HagiIshiku already mentioned it, but you dont even have to talk about your feelings. You can just start really simple with “I will brush my teeth now” or “I made breakfast.” Just talk to yourself around the house, not even in a focused practice way, but just start off describing one action a day and see if you can work up from there.

1 Like
#17

Also a great way to level up your speaking and buy yourself some thinking time are the following fillers:

etto…
anou…
sa
maa
ne
anou sa
anou ne
nandarou/nandeshou/nandarouna
nandakke

In English we constantly signal that we are not done speaking but need time to think by using fillers. Japanese is the same. I use them so much that I even say “etto” instead of “umm” in English now…

“etto”, “anou” and “nandakke” are probably the safest for beginners I think

3 Likes
#18

Some of it boils down to a lot of little things of like the store Im in and how touristy a place is. I personally dont like the average Japanese coffee shop, because I think they are to bitter, and I prefer expresso drinks. So I tend to go to starbucks(which is only marginally better).

Unless its a specific one I go to about once a week, they naturally aim at English for me. Ive also had two instances of looking for something or someone to meet up and had someone come up and ask me in English if I needed help finding a place. Which is very kind so thats not upsetting but also like, what?

The other issue with me is I live next to Narita airport, so I often go into Narita, meaning a SHIT ton of other foreigners also do. And Im just another white bearded face in the mix so it makes sense to an extent why they do it sometimes, but still.

Now I have gone to some places and spoken entirely in japanese and stumbled through it and they spoke a bit slower and let me, and then Ive gone to restaurants and a handful of other places(Conibis come to mind) where the shop keep seems to refuse to use Japanese.
Speaking of conbinis actually, there is an some form of Indian family(From the area or maybe a country east of India, cant tell since they seem to speak in a mix of Japanese and a second language), anyway a few of them work at a conbini in town part time. Funnily, they speak english at me and its like, No, Im also living here. Like you. We both speak Japanese. We take the same bus to get out of town lmao.

When I went to kyoto about a year ago, I heard more English than Japanese. I seemed to surprise any japanese person that I even remotely spoke Japanese so I just assume the tourism there is REALLY bad.

But again, to make a long story short, It happens from time to time. Now its been maybe a little over a year since Ive actively gone into like tokyo for any extended period of time so maybe I did sound like shit.

#19

Thanks to everyone who responded in this thread - the suggestions were very useful!

I checked with our library system, and they’ve got level 1 Pimsleur Japanese - so I’ve ordered it. Now, for the greatest struggle of all…finding something that can play a physical CD!!! It’s from 2010, so basically ancient tech at this point.

I also looked up MeetUp groups here in Miami. There isn’t a language exchange group, but there’s a local church that does weekly Japanese lessons for an hour before their services. I’ll give that a try in the next weekend or two to see if it’s conversational or just actual lessons (which wouldn’t be what I’m interested in). But if I can meet even one local partner who’d be up for some zoom chats, that might work. If nothing pans out, I’ll try some of the big east coast cities and see if I can glom onto a zoom group.

I also used AI to draft a few scripted dialogues for common situations (ordering a meal at a restaurant, asking directions on the subway). I’ve incorporated that into my daily study routine, just to get better feel for how to say common things. I worry about using AI, that it might give me something that’s grammatically incorrect or (more likely) unnatural Japanese…but for my very beginner N5/Genki I level, it’s probably simple enough that AI can get it right.

@jrmr50 - upthread you suggested the Speak App might be useful. How did you find their Japanese content? Was it fully built out?

1 Like
#20

I’ve a little look at the beginner path, and it was basic, like you’d expect, ’水、もらえますか’ - but still useful practical Japanese.

I’ve done more on the intermediate path, I think it’s okay/good ish. Each lesson you learn a couple of stock phrases, a bit of vocab to mix up the examples.

There’s a review queue, a criticism of mine is that the content doesn’t ‘stick’ brilliantly.

The free-talk is where it’s at. There’s community and provided ones. You waffle a bit, make mistakes, it picks up on them, corrects and gives you practice one. THe provided ones have a little bit more structure than the community ones, but the community ones are more useful scenarios in my opinion.
My criticism is that they are a bit TOO open, like go in a cafe and order… er… what do I need to order. So I’m using in conjunction with AI, ‘Okay the scenario is I’m going in a cafe… what should I practice’ and it will give me some instructions/challenges in English, like ‘Ask if you can use the Wifi’ ‘Ask what time they close’ etc etc

Yeah I get it’s a high price point for this sort of thing, but you know…

1 Like