Getting Out of Synonym Hell

Bunpro
#1

I am studying for N4, just moving into Vol 3 of Japanese for Busy People, supplemented with wanikani, Japanese Pod 101, Tae Kim, iknow, and of course bunpro.

My problem is - SYNONYMS! I know a lot of times this is nuance I’m missing. Honestly, Tae Kim is a bit brief of that. Also, the prompts are frequently confusing, and so I feel like I’m memorizing the sentences sometimes rather than truly learning the underlying grammar.

Other than just tons of brute forcing it, what do other people do to deal with terms that are quite similar without seeing the infamous red bar all the time? (I like the green bar :slight_smile: ).

Thanks for any help!

Larry

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#2

Hi,
For N5 and N4 materials, I tried both Genki and Minna no Nihongo (I tried Tae Kim but felt more dense, less explanations, and less grammar points overall compared to the language learning books).

I found Minna no Nihongo better at explaining some stuff, and overall more fun because it was mostly in Japanese (not relying too much on English), and harder, but still have the same issue. It’s just a personal choice (Minna is not user friendly compared to Genki, not really great for self-study …).
Anyway ! Sometimes, it felt like “This grammar point is used when XXX, very similar to XXX grammar point”. Most of the time, the explanation was enough to differentiate them (they put some example sentences and explain why xxx and xxx is better in this case) but sometimes it’s not.

What helped me a lot is to reinforce my knowledge with the Kanzen Master series (especially the Grammar book).
It’s a jlpt prep-books with great explanations. We review confusing grammar points simultaneously, they explain the difference and then … It’s quizz time :rofl: (+ sometimes depression). I’m just beginning Bunpro, so it will be a great way to review them over time using the SRS instead of understand everything during the kanzen quizz, and forgetting it a few weeks after.

For Vocabulary synonym, I just put some Jisho sentences with context on my Anki deck. Without context, it’s almost impossible to distinguish some vocabulary.

I hope it’s somehow helpful, and 頑張って :wink:

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#3

Hi there!
When you say"synonyms", do you mean two separate grammar points that mean the same thing (like the many, many ways to say “must” in Japanese)?

If so, then what I’ve started doing is to simply ignore the nuance completely and try to just learn the grammar points as if they were entirely new. Nuance is something I hope to pick up once I can immerse more with the language.

The cram option is also something that can help, if you have a list of items that often give you trouble.

Sorry, I realize this isn’t much, but I feel like those synonyms are something that is innately hard, and there’s no single “good” way to deal with them effectively.

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#4

@Mapletree Sometimes there is no difference in usage, so we can just ignore the difference. But sometimes, the meaning is the same, but different use case. For example Ageru/Kureru can be sometimes difficult to differentiate, and depends on the giver and receiver (inner circle or not).

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#5

Have you considered getting something like the Dictionary of Basic/Intermediate/Advanced Japanese Grammar? It’s a three-part series that has detailed explanations of grammar points with examples and always points out differences to related grammar points. The first one seems to cover most essential grammar (i.e. N5-N4 and parts of N3).

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#6

It only gets worse as you enter N3-N2. The way I’ve done it is to only add in grammar points that I have solid context for, that I can recall a scene of in something I’ve watched, or that I’m somehow very very familiar with. Then, and this is the most important part, I think about any and all grammar points that I could use to express the same idea. Just doing this should give you good results. But once I do this, if any of the similar points seem identical to me, I look up the Dictionary of Japanese Grammar, reddit, BunPro, and a few other sources if needed until I am pretty sure I can disambiguate the two.

In my experience, you can look at several factors:

  1. Grammatical form: how does it attach, what can it attach to? (E.g.: stem, plain form, past form, etc.).
  2. Level of formality
  3. Is it used in writing or in speech or can it be both?
  4. Gendered usage?

If these 4 points aren’t enough to disambiguate everything, then sometimes it can get more into the specifics of the point itself:
a) Can it be used on yourself, or is it usually used to describe others?
b) Used with controllable verbs?
c) Used with transitive verbs?
d) Used with spontaneous or continuous verbs?
e) Used predominantly in very specific contexts/fixed expressions?

If you go through all these points, it should be rare for you not to be able to disambiguate things. Usually, just the first 4 points should be enough. As you get into N2, you may need to worry about the finer points I gave later on. Hope that helps!

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#7

I’ve always called Wanikani a “Synonym minefield.”
I stepped on a lot of mines… :boom:

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#8

An idea I started very recently is to Cram several similar grammar points at the same time on Bunpro to get used to the nuances. And then for more reinforcement, reset them at the same time so they keep popping up at the same time in reviews. (Of course, that also means losing the points for them.)

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#9

Another vote here for Dictionary of Basic/Intermediate Japanese Grammar. Check it for every point that you add on BunPro. It’s the best resource ever.

BTW all the seems like, appears like, looks like, heard that etc all comes under ようだ and it explains them all brilliantly.

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#10

The kanzen master series focuses specifically on this issue. I found that using the kanzen master grammar and vocabulary books, together with an anki deck that I made myself was very helpful in regards to this.

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#11

Agreed. The Kanzen master series grammar books are great for studying the nuances between similar grammar forms

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#12

Or if you want to have just one book, you can use 日本語文型辞典 英語版 ―A Handbook of Japanese Grammar Patterns for Teachers and Learners: Group Jammassy: 9784874246788: Amazon.com: Books

I have the Dic. series and the Handbook, personally, I find the handbook explanations more straightforward.

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#13

勉強を手伝ってくれてありがとうございます！

Each of these suggestions has been super helpful, and something click with よう so I’m sure there’s plenty of more stumbling ahead but at least each session of bunpro no longer ends in despair (well, until N3 I guess!)

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#14

I recently picked up the Handbook and can confirm, as an owner for many years of the DoJG 3-volume series, this single volume Handbook is my primary book I use now, while the DoJG series are something I rarely touch anymore.

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#15

Do you mind explaining why you prefer one so much over the other? I think other people would be super interested to hear about your experience, given how popular the 3-volume series seems to be!

#16

The primary reasons I always grab the Handbook as my first choice are:

  • Single volume coverage of all grammar terms reduces my time to resolution. I don’t need to start with the appendix in the back of the Advanced volume, then realize my grammar term is spread across potentially multiple volumes, after which I need to open multiple volumes to gain complete insight on usage.
  • Terms are indexed more consistently. In DoJG, some terms you find under て such as てもいい whereas many others, such as て来る, you’d find under 来る. I believe Handbook goes out of its way to always index everything such that it includes the preceding kana as part of the grammar structure (such as てもいい and て来る).
  • Handbook provides more example sentences per grammar term.
  • Handbook explains the grammar function(s) in less words (which I usually find to be adequate).
  • There’s a pretty slick reverse-index in the back of Handbook that allows you to lookup grammar terms starting with the final kana and going backwards, which can sometimes be easier if you aren’t positive where the grammar term starts from precisely.

I’m sure there’s more benefits, and some cons, but for my purposes, the Handbook meets my needs in a smaller form factor.

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#17

The main reason the 3-volume series is that popular is that it has been around for many years while the English version of the handbook is relatively more recent.

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