ば - Grammar Discussion

The Bunpro grammar page, in the box at the very bottom, states:

Caution - So that you do not mix up the conjugation rules for ば, and potential verbs, remember that the last kana of the verb will change to an あ sound, before adding れる, with potential verbs. However, this change is to an え sound with ば.

Isn’t this wrong – the 〜[あ]れる (for 五段 verbs) form referred to here should be called the passive form, whereas the potential form is 〜[え]る, or is it not?

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Hi @dpn, apologies for the late reply! This appears to be a mistake, and has since been fixed. The correct form will appear on the website shortly. :relaxed:

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I’m just a (upper beginner?) Japanese learner, so I hope this doesn’t come across as arrogant. I’m just confused, that’s all. I don’t understand why all the “literal” examples for the ば conditional form are “literally” translated in the passive form. Maybe whoever added the translations mixed up the ば conditional form with the passive form?

明日雨が降れば、映画を見に行くつもり。
If it rains tomorrow, then I will go watch a movie.
[lit. “if rain gets fallen”]

For what it’s worth, I do think a “literal” translation for this sentence would be helpful, since the natural English sentence uses “rain” as a verb, unlike the Japanese, which uses it as a noun. But the “literal” translation would be more like “If rain falls, then…”, treating rain as an active subject. I don’t understand why the passive voice was added in the “literal” translation.

毎日サッカーの練習に行けば、 …
If you go to soccer practice every day, then …
[lit. “if practice gets gone to”]

I don’t even know what to say here. “…gets gone to”?

As far as I can tell, none of the examples is actually using the passive voice, but I only posted the first two examples. Is there something I’m missing here?

I have a question for the conjugation やめる
雨が止めば、今日も釣りに行くつもりです。
should this not be やめれば

Thanks Andy

The verb isn’t 止める (transitive), it’s 止む (intransitive).

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ahh Thank you yes, of course similar me. Im not very good at the transitive and intransitive

This example has been touched upon already here, but I still can’t completely understand, how negative conditional form is conjugated here:

そのコーヒーを好きでなければ、この飲み物も絶対好きじゃないでしょう。

And what exactly is である and why it completely loses ある when conjugated to negative conditional. Is it even a complete verb or is it で (because of 好き) + ある? Even though shouldn’t it be あなければ then?

It’s で (particle) + ある (verb).

The negative form of ある is just ない, which conjugates like an い-adjective.

In certain older texts, you might encounter あらねば or あらざれば too, but not in modern standard Japanese.

It’s not an ichidan verb so it can’t be this.

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Thank you for taking time to explain this to me. The conjugation of ある still confuses me too much. I guess I just need some time for it to sink in.

It’s not the で particle, it’s the te-form of the copula. 好き is a na-adjective, and you need で to connect a noun and a na-adjective to the negative conditional.

Treating で as the te-form of the copula is only a modern reanalysis. It’s about as far removed from explaining the structure of である as possible.

Thank you for your explanation.

Almost all negative grammar points I’ve encountered so far can be conjucated with either じゃ or では, so is it ok to say じゃなければ instead of でなければ?

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Yep! This is common in my experience. I also found a lot of usages in a Massif search.

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Thanks!

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