ば - Grammar Discussion

The Bunpro grammar page, in the box at the very bottom, states:

Caution - So that you do not mix up the conjugation rules for ば, and potential verbs, remember that the last kana of the verb will change to an あ sound, before adding れる, with potential verbs. However, this change is to an え sound with ば.

Isn’t this wrong – the 〜[あ]れる (for 五段 verbs) form referred to here should be called the passive form, whereas the potential form is 〜[え]る, or is it not?

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Hi @dpn, apologies for the late reply! This appears to be a mistake, and has since been fixed. The correct form will appear on the website shortly. :relaxed:

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I’m just a (upper beginner?) Japanese learner, so I hope this doesn’t come across as arrogant. I’m just confused, that’s all. I don’t understand why all the “literal” examples for the ば conditional form are “literally” translated in the passive form. Maybe whoever added the translations mixed up the ば conditional form with the passive form?

明日雨が降れば、映画を見に行くつもり。
If it rains tomorrow, then I will go watch a movie.
[lit. “if rain gets fallen”]

For what it’s worth, I do think a “literal” translation for this sentence would be helpful, since the natural English sentence uses “rain” as a verb, unlike the Japanese, which uses it as a noun. But the “literal” translation would be more like “If rain falls, then…”, treating rain as an active subject. I don’t understand why the passive voice was added in the “literal” translation.

毎日サッカーの練習に行けば、 …
If you go to soccer practice every day, then …
[lit. “if practice gets gone to”]

I don’t even know what to say here. “…gets gone to”?

As far as I can tell, none of the examples is actually using the passive voice, but I only posted the first two examples. Is there something I’m missing here?

I have a question for the conjugation やめる
雨が止めば、今日も釣りに行くつもりです。
should this not be やめれば

Thanks Andy

The verb isn’t 止める (transitive), it’s 止む (intransitive).

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ahh Thank you yes, of course similar me. Im not very good at the transitive and intransitive

This example has been touched upon already here, but I still can’t completely understand, how negative conditional form is conjugated here:

そのコーヒーを好きでなければ、この飲み物も絶対好きじゃないでしょう。

And what exactly is である and why it completely loses ある when conjugated to negative conditional. Is it even a complete verb or is it で (because of 好き) + ある? Even though shouldn’t it be あなければ then?

It’s で (particle) + ある (verb).

The negative form of ある is just ない, which conjugates like an い-adjective.

In certain older texts, you might encounter あらねば or あらざれば too, but not in modern standard Japanese.

It’s not an ichidan verb so it can’t be this.

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Thank you for taking time to explain this to me. The conjugation of ある still confuses me too much. I guess I just need some time for it to sink in.

It’s not the で particle, it’s the te-form of the copula. 好き is a na-adjective, and you need で to connect a noun and a na-adjective to the negative conditional.

Treating で as the te-form of the copula is only a modern reanalysis. It’s about as far removed from explaining the structure of である as possible.

Thank you for your explanation.