内に grammar & questions

Japanese
#1

Hello everyone
Recently i stumbled upon the grammatical construction 内に and 間に. The basics are and differences are somewhat understandable and i can follow them.
However, whenever it gets more complicated I tend to get lost between the two.

So first of all the differences between the two
内に

  1. Sense of urgency, do it now/fast because the situation might change
  2. No clear start or end
  3. As mentioned in (1) indicates a changing process
  4. (Not sure about this one) But it puts an emphasis on the coorelation between the actions performed at part A and Part B

So for example;
赤ちゃんは食べている内に寝てしまった
In this case 内に is used instead of 間に because it coorelates the action of falling asleep w the baby eating, and it signifies that the baby gradually fell asleep? (If someone can correct me on this, as I’m still confused)

Now how does this imply on the following sentences that i found on a website;

    1. 若わかい（うちに 〇・間に X｝英語を勉強した方ほうがいいよ.

2.家へ帰る間に、傘を忘れてきたのに気づいた。
3. . 家へ帰るうちに、傘を忘れてきたのに気づいた。

9a. 彼氏が晩ご飯はんの支度したくをする間に、宿題を全部済ませてしまった。 〇
9b. 彼氏が晩ご飯の支度をするうちに、宿題を全部済ませてしまった。X

  1. 酒をごくごくと飲む｛〇 うちに・X 間に｝、また顔が真っ赤になってた。(Casual)
    My face got completely red again while I was gulping down sake/liquor/alcohol.

  2. 駅へ行く｛うちに・間に｝、家に傘を忘れてきたのに気がついた。
    While I was going to the train station, I realized that I had left my umbrella at home.

  3. その新聞は、夜の｛うちに・間に｝、配られてくるんですね。
    That’s because the newspaper is delivered during the night.

My apologies for the many examples but hopefully i was able to properly explain the point.
I find the nuance hard to grasp in these examples, hopefully someone can help me!

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#2

There are many situations where both あいだに and うちに will be correct. What will control which one is the most correct though will be what the speaker is actually trying to say.

To start with, all of this is true about うちに -

Additionally, it can have the sense of there being a lack of control over the result, which is where this sentence fits in.

The baby didn’t try to fall asleep, he was just eating his cereal or something and then kinda nodded off.

Perhaps it’s best to think of all of the above examples of うちに having one primary thing in common. (A) is THE limited time frame. The emphasis is on (A) itself being the period within which the circumstances were/are just right for (B) to happen, regardless of whether (B) is a good thing or a bad thing. あいだに focuses more simply on the length of the timeframe as a plain fact within which another thing can occur. Let’s look at your examples -

Being young is the time when you should study English. It is not certain that you’ll be able to when you’re older. (Being young is ideal for learning, you might have other commitments when you’re older and not have time for it)

I finished off all my homework while my boyfriend was preparing dinner. (This focuses on the length of time, she was able to do all her work. She also could have done it before or after dinner, there are no special circumstances that meant she could only do it at this time)

My face went completely red while guzzling alcohol. (In this case, only うちに would work. The drinking of the alcohol is the direct cause for their face going completely red)

Either would work here, both the amount of time or the precise moment itself could be the cause for her noticing that they forgot their umbrella. うちに implies something happened that reminded her. Perhaps they looked up and saw dark clouds. あいだに implies that the time itself is the focus. The distance of the walk was sufficient for them to naturally come to the realization that she forgot it, there’s nothing saying that she wouldn’t have noticed after she arrived at work)

Hope these few examples help :v:

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#3

Hey Asher,

Thank you so much for your detailed explanation, it was really good!
I will try to go over it one more time to make it fully clear ( reiterate it)(my apologies if I forget to give you credit for something you explained)

To add onto this: i spoke to some Japanese linguistics at my university (either native japanese or well versed) and they came with the following conclusion:

間に expresses two parallel timelines that so happen to occur at the same time but they’re not perse coorelated to one another. (And so not bound to one another)
Furthermore it has more of a focus on the ENTIRE duration of something from beginning to end. (You also mentioned this)

内に on the other hand;

Something needs to have the exact conditions in order for B to happen. (As you mentioned)

It does focus on time, but rather than it being the whole length it focuses on the END of A.

(Which is why i do not fully agree with bunpro’s explanation of it being an unspecific time period, it’s a bit too vague and might accidently be confusing/misleading)

Exhibit A:

If you were to 内に it would sounds like YOU can only be finished w ur homework if he’s cooking. This sounds weird and can therefore not be the case.

Exhibit B:

動画を見ている内に寝てしまった

Here 内に is used because as u mentioned it’s a lack of control that made you fall asleep, however i would like to add to this explanation that: this lack of control comes from the fact that the conditions for watching the video were just right for you to fall asleep. If you had done something else you probably wouldn’t have fallen asleep, and so it makes the video directly responsible for you falling asleep. (After watching and falling asleep you will most likely awake up)

間に would just simply imply that these 2 happend at the same but that sounds highly unlikely, therefore it might be grammatically correct but sound unnatural.

Perhaps if you were to use the following 動画がプレイしている内に ・間に寝てしまった

The difference in meaning would probably be that in the first example the video was boring or made u sleepy and therefore u fell asleep, whereas 間に simply states that a video was playing while you fell asleep!

Hopefully this is correct!

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#4

You may also want to look into the fact that just 間 is different to 間に in nuance. Also compare the nuance of 間 with しながら and you’ll see how 間 can really carry quite a different meaning to うちに.

Also if you take a look at ~ないうちに (which is normally taught as a different “grammar point”) you’ll find it is often translated as “before blah blah blah” which reflects the fact that うちに has a nuance of the time being “right” and kind of not measurable but more based on a subjective sense of time. This is the kind of meaning in sentences like “Eat it before it gets cold” and it’s partner “Eat it whilst it’s hot”. The first would (or could) use 冷めないうちに and the second would (or could) use 温かいうちに. Hopefully you can see the nuance here.

In practice the difference should be quite clear when reading or listening even if these seem confusing in the abstract.

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