"have to/must do" grammar nuance

Bunpro
#1

I love bunpro, but I feel like there could be improvements made to the nuance of some grammar points, particularly the “have to” ones.

For example:

  • -なくてはいけない/ならない
  • -ないとだめ/いけない
  • -なければいけない/ならない

Plus all the polite ます version of the above mentioned.

I feel like whenever I see a “have to” or a “must do” in my grammar reviews, I am just cycling through each of these until one of them is marked correct.

I run into cases where なくてはいけない is incorrect while なくてはならない is acceptable. Which I don’t feel is actually the case here based on my understanding of the grammar points. It could have something to do with formality, but that isn’t really made clear when I re-read through the grammar points.

I feel that either they should all be accepted as correct, or more nuance added to the grammar descriptions to explain the differences, so that I can enter the correct one during reviews.

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#2

also なきゃ・なくちゃ
I agree, despite being very familiar with these I also often try a few until I pass, which ironically can create more confusion.

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#3

I agree there’s very little distinction given between them, but honestly if I get one of them wrong because it’s supposed to be ならない instead of いけない I just backspace and fix it. I know ならない is more polite, but I don’t want to waste my time trying to discern if it wants uber polite or normal polite.

(honestly I just give it the short form anyway of なきゃ unless it tells me I’m wrong)

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#4

I think the confusion I get most is not いけない・ならない but more between 〜くては and なければ then potentially a second pass on ならない/いけない.
It is no big deal but annoying, I imagine for someone that was completely unfamiliar with them it must be really confusing though.

Now clearly なければ I would never hear it in real life when I lived in Japan, I think there was a warning in the lesson mentioning that. It should appear in the review as well as this is a really rare form (by speech!). that is typical textbook Japanese vs real life Japanese.

In my mind despite the very similar meaning, there is a rather clear distinction between these from their actual usage, I feel the way they come in the reviews seem to make it all interchangeable which is the added confusion I was mentioning.

Also regarding なきゃ I would encourage to get used to it even if I think it gets corrected automatically if I am not wrong .
The reason for that is that you hear this one all the time, this is the form that is by far the most common in daily life, the one you will absolutely use constantly (casual speech again), so you’d want to be very confortable using naturally.
I think this speech occurence thing should be more clearly hinted in the review itself, not only the lesson.

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#5

There are definitely differences between なければ and なくては, as well as いけない and ならない. To be honest I don’t remember well the differences between なければ and なくては. However, IIRC, ならない is used mostly for situations where you have social norms or general rules that apply to a large group of people, etc. Example: Paying your taxes; Follow the law; Abide by the community guidelines, etc. That’s why you will see ならない used commonly in polite settings, such as official documents.

As for いけない, I believe it is used in pretty much all other situations where you’re talking about things that must be done. I could be wrong about this, so apologies if so. It’s been a while since I’ve looked at the details of this grammar.

Also, according to one of my Japanese friends, and my old Japanese teacher (She’s not old, but I’m no longer taking lessons from her since she’s not teaching anymore :cry:), using なくちゃ sounds childish and/or feminine. As was mentioned, if speaking informally, you’ll hear なきゃ more often instead, without the いけない.

Take care!

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#6

Agree with this, my eyes have been glazing over on these lately.

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