How do you deal with all the "Judging From" and "From the standpoint of" in N2?

Japanese
#1

I’ve been chugging along my Bunpro journey pretty well. I started the site more as a refresher and a refiner than learning from new since I’ve been reading for a while and it’s been super helpful, BUT there is one hellish stretch of the N2 section that’s driving me insane and I have a hard time believing many of these are even functionally different despite even though I’m constantly getting them wrong.

  • にしたら - From the point of view of
  • としては - As a, For a, As for
  • という点から考えると - From the standpoint of, From the perspective of, From the viewpoint of, Think in terms of, Viewed from the angle of
  • から見ると - From the point of view of, By the look of
  • ところを見ると - Judging from, Seeing that
  • からすると - Judging from, Considering
  • からして - Even…, Judging from, Based on

I feel like there are probably even more lurking in my deck from earlier levels, and usually bunpro is pretty good at accepting alternate answers that are still correct so I generally try to produce the one that comes the most naturally to me, but the onslaught of getting all of these at once is driving me nuts! Do you have any good tricks for dealing with this hell-group?

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#2

I haven’t gotten that far yet, but I’ve dealt with all the keigo in N4 by not adding all of them in my reviews one after another and instead sprinkling them in one by one when I’ve gotten a firm grasp on the previous point. I’m planning to do the same when I encounter more synonym hells/clusters of similar grammar points in the future.

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#3

This is kind of a meme with Bunpro forever, but it is the complexity (and redundancy) of Japanese are to blame. Still, just keep cramming it. Once you remember them all, or kill all those ghosts, you’ll remember them for a long time. And of course, showing all the possible tips is quite helpful.

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#4

How were you able to sprinkle them in? Did you add them manually? Or did you just skip a few days?

I have such a big trouble having similar grammar points one after the other, that I’m looking for easy ways to circumvent this. I was thinking about prereading grammar points and add everything manually, so everything is spaced out…

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#5

One of the easiest ways to deal with these is probably through the hints that we have specifically made for the reviews. The hints are written almost obnoxiously close to a literal translation so that differentiating one from the other becomes a lot easier. For example -

  • にしたら - From the point of view of
    A hypothetical phrase that indicates that if you go off the point of view of (A), then (B).
    (‘go off’ indicating にする and hypothetical indicating たら)
  • としては - As a, For a, As for
    A hypothetical grammar point that expresses that going with the general conclusion of (A), (B) is the case.
    (‘going with’ again indicating する usage and hypothetical indicating the と)
  • から見ると - From the point of view of, By the look of
    A hypothetical expression that points out how something looks from the perspective of (A).
    (‘looks from’ indicating から見る and hypothetical indicating と)
  • ところを見ると - Judging from, Seeing that
    A hypothetical construction that looks at the place or situation of (A), before making a judgement about it.
    (‘place or situation’ indicating ところ, ‘looks at’ indicating 見る, hypothetical indicating と)

Etc etc. Yes the hints can be a little cheezy, but they are written in a way that specifically hints at certain words being used in the Japanese. Basically they are not really meant to be literal meanings, more just little nudges to indicate that ‘hey this certain word is probably being used’. If you start keeping an eye out for these different keywords, figuring out which grammar point the system is looking for will become a lot easier!

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#6

Your idea sounds good, that’s basically what I did. I went to the Bunpro N4 (sometimes N3) deck and picked a grammar point that looked sufficiently different from the batch I ran into and added it into my reviews manually. I didn’t skip any days, I just manually added lessons into my reviews until I felt confident enough to add another synonym from continuing the pre-set Bunpro path.

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#7

Most of them seem to be able to be broken down into simpler concepts. Especially から見ると and という点から考えると seem simple after taking them part for part. even としては feels like it would mean (if you didn’t know the real meaning) “and this” which is pretty close to “as for.”

The others like にしたら feels more hypothetical than the others, but still understandable. as Asher said, にする for “go off” (or i guess “based off?”) and たら being hypothetical.

It feels like a big review of N3 concepts to me. Try the approach of not thinking that they are “new grammar points” and more like chimera and identify what you already know and piece it together.

#8

I added all the N4 keigo points as they came, they rotted in beginner with ghosts for a couple of weeks because I kept using the wrong one. So I removed them all from reviews and manually added whatever came after. As soon as I feel like the keigo PTSD wears off, I will manually add them slowly, one by one, with time in between. While adding other things.

In the end this was the moment where I stopped following the Tae Kim Deck (at least temporarily) and went by the Bunpro order instead. On the Tae Kim Deck it happens much more frequently, because everything is grouped by topic. Similarly, all the ways to express obligations were also added in the same wave.

Sometimes, I create units in my “temp deck” and learn those instead, to make manual selection a little more convenient.

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