How to consume media/immerse correctly

Japanese
#13

I want to do something similar, I’ve been actually just running full episodes without subtitles, and I understand maybe 30% of it, mostly based on context.

If you don’t mind me asking, where are you guys getting anime with Japanese subtitles? I’ve been mostly watching kids shows via IPTV (like japanese dubbed Disney shows). How were you able to set it up to pause every subtitle?

I find this way of learning way more rewarding because it actually feels like I’m making progress, rather than just bulk studying random words and concepts.

#14

Animelon is one site I’m currently using. They don’t have everything but definitely a heck ton. Option for eng/romanji/jap subtitles with any combination of the three or none at all

No idea about the pause after every sub thing tho
Welcome to the community :tada:

#15

You can download subtitle files on kitsunekko.net, or watch on animelon. I think sites like netflix include subtitles in most languages as well.

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#16

I agree with Brand. Ones where you look stuff up are “active immersion” and ones where you don’t are “passive immersion”.
I look up words more often in Manga, cause I find it frustrating to pause all the time.
I personally just set my Netfilx account to Japanese.

https://animecards.site/minefromanime/
and

both have instructions on how to run scripts that automatically pause every time the subtitle changes and export that information to anki, and a browser where you can use yomichan to make an anki card.
I followed tasumoto ren’s guide and made two anki cards this way. Subs 2 SRS looks easier to set up.

I’m not hard core enough to All Japanese All The Time.

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#17

To auto pause I get my subtitle files online and my video files…… ripped from legally purchased DVDs :eyes::eyes::eyes: and then I use a program called Memento which is similar to mpv. On my mac I press command+P and it auto pauses at the end of each subtitle, Memento includes yomichan so you can hover over and use the dictionary on words

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#18

Language Reactor allows you to pause after every subtitle: https://www.languagereactor.com/

For example, on YouTube:

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You can use the AP toggle on the right which is labelled: “Automatically pause playback at the end of every subtitle [‘Q’ key]”.

Note that the automatic furigana on Language Reactor isn’t always correct, so sometimes I double check it with Yomichan/Yomitan or Jisho.

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Method Effectiveness
#19

Sorry if it seems obvious, but Japanese Netflix has a whole lot. If you’re subscribed you could try a VPN and check out the catalogue. The only disadvantage is that many of the items don’t have english audio/subs at all. My recommendation would be ‘Frieren’ its a pretty heartwarming slice of life in a fantasy setting if thats something you’re into.

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#20

I’m not a big media guy, a lot due to being busy often, so don’t take my opinion to heavily.

I never really liked how people call it immersing. You are not immersing yourself, you are subjecting yourself. You are actively choosing to force yourself to do something that your brain is going to resist
But I always thought a good way of going about it would be as follow.
Find something that is native to japanese, that has a full english translation. Preferably shorter form (10-15 minutes). Watch the content in japanese, while pausing and rewinding when you inevitably start to lose focus, and then mull over it for a minute or two. Then watch the English (or which ever native tongue you have) version. Then rewatch the japanese version, this time pausing after every couple of sentences to make sure you are still following. This way you familiarize yourself with the content (and give yourself a chance to understand it in japanese) in japanese. Then you understand it, and see if you had any bad on the fly comprehensions, in your mother tongue. And finally you connect it all by reviewing. Just what I always kind of thought at least

Also, I always thought songs would be a good way to do it.

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#21

What they said^

I try very hard to keep the media I consume in pure Japanese (no English subtitles sort of thing) to about 80% comprehension, 70 at a stretch if I really, really want to consume that particular thing.
I mostly read, though, I don’t actually know enough Japanese for pretty much any anime to fall into that category, though looking at jpdb there appear to be a few; I also just don’t really tend to watch anime in the first place, so grain of salt.

I also don’t do the thing where I just listen to Japanese just to hear it / let it wash over me–that never did anything positive for me at all and in fact actually had some detriments I had to work extremely hard to get over–but I get that a lot of people like it so I wouldn’t recommend against it or anything.

I think, do what you enjoy, but it seems to me and many other people (such as Steve Kauffman) that 80%ish is really the sweet spot. I naturally gravitated towards that when I started reading because it felt like I was really reading, but it also felt like I was learning, but it’s also what many people recommend.
The more you do the thing (read, watch, listen–I should also mention that all the stuff I read has audio, so I read, then read and listen, then listen, only checking English if I just cannot figure out the sentence lol, and I’ve gotten MUCH better at both reading and listening doing it that way) the faster you get at doing it and the more you can handle. I stopped translating in my head about 60% of the way through N4 because of all of the reading, which I’ve heard is fairly early on, but it made listening so much easier, like holy wow, it was like I beat a much higher level boss and suddenly jumped up 15 levels at once, lol.

So I guess the tl;dr is if you can find some content that is at about 80% for you, and you don’t hate it, consuming a lot of that will be very beneficial. Stuff that’s lower is also great if you want to do it, but I think the 80% range seems to be the best balance of enjoyment and learning.

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#22

I’m watching some anime that I guess could be considered “more advanced” anime (Niche isekais with abnormal story telling) and I’m getting about 30-40% of the conversation. however whenever I hear/see a word that I have studied in the show, it helps reinforce the word tremendously. I’d say even if you have lower than 80% (Which let’s be honest is a relatively high level of japanese, at least in this genre) it would still benefit you greatly just watch for words that you do understand in context.

#23

I think the name ‘immersion’ originally referred to schools where all classes are taught in that language, instead of just language class.

Yeah, immersion is hard. Congrats to everyone here who immeres! It’s a struggle every day.

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#24

I’m curious about what detriments that caused you - I don’t actively do that myself (sometimes I zone out accidently if I’ve been listening for too long), but it’s not immediately obvious to me what the negative consequences could be

Also I’ve really been loving watching Peppa Pig in Japanese recently ( ペッパピッグ ー Peppa Pig - YouTube). As a British person, I watched that show obsessively as a child so it’s really fun to look back on it now, and I think it being in Japanese makes it a more pleasant experience than it would be watching it now in English. But yh, I definitely lean on the side of understanding 80% personally because I think having to look up every other word would drive me insane

#25

Honestly it’s hard to explain, especially via text and I’m still a little afraid after the last time I tried to explain it online, a few weeks ago :sweat_smile:. I spent hours but they didn’t get what I meant. Others have understood it immediately, though, so I don’t know. I don’t want to mess up explaining it on the internet where it might do more harm than good.

I was going to make a video (I sometimes make educational videos on the internet,) about how to get over it since you are legitimately incapable of learning with that debuff, but in doing research for potential terminology and language psychology, I discovered that I could not find a single other person who had reported the issue! No one complaining on Reddit. No tips and tricks on youtube, etc. Nothing.

So, I concluded that this problem is ultra rare shiny, or it would be everywhere since so many people suggest the very thing that caused it for me :joy:. I’m probably just the extreme example of a brain that adapts too well to passive input, but it’s why I always make sure to point out that the passive thing does not work for everyone, (also listening to audio while sleeping.) Fo
many people, it seems to just do nothing at all. For me, it caused an issue. For some people, I imagine it’s like extra SRS points or something similar. FWIW I already make listening flash cards for all of my SRS cards (I was told this is very abnormal,) so I am getting that help, plus the comprehensible audio clicks in my brain in a way that that the less than 60% stuff never did.

I am aware that this was probably not enlightening and that it was also long and for that I apologize. If I ever do think it’s an issue worth a video, I’ll post it somewhere. Hopefully I’ll have a better grasp on an understandable explanation of the symptoms at that time.

#26

Can you link the explanation you already gave before? I have an idea of what could it be, but without knowing anything, it’s just conjecture

#27

Unfortunately I cannot, it wasn’t public and I no longer have access.

#28

My biggest piece of advice is to make sure the content you’re immersing is in the right language. I spent four months accidentally watching anime in Spanish and it was muy malo for my Japanese learning.

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#29

I know about 700 vocab, would getting to 1500-2000 make it easier for immersion? As in understanding more of what is being said? I’m doing grammar study with Bunpro and the core 2.3k deck on Anki and I’m wondering if they will help or is it just immersion that makes you learn more. I don’t feel I understand enough of what’s being said at the moment

#30

I think so, the 1000-1500 more common words appear pretty much everywhere in my experience. But I can’t say it will improve as much you are thinking it will. Going from 700 to 1500 is more than doubling your vocabulary knowledge, but by Zipf’s law, they will not affect your experience as much as learning the first 700. Even so, I learn as much as I can.

Idk what’s the coverage of these “Core” decks though, someone else can give a more informed opinion on them, I just use jpdb.io myself. Also, learning the common vocabulary being used in the material you are consuming, instead of general common vocab, can be a big help as well. Check up Narrow Reading.

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#31

Thank you for the response, I’ll check out those links

#32

Most the replies in this thread are talking about immersion from the perspective of relatively low levels of comprehension (80% or below) and I think it’s probably useful to mention the fact that you could probably consider there to be different “levels” of immersion.

  1. You understand nothing because you do not know Japanese and haven’t studied it yet. At this point other than getting used to the sounds and noticing easy patterns but you will be getting basically nothing out of immersion. 0-2% comprehension. Feels like 5-10%.

  2. You know 0-1000 words and extremely basic grammar. At this point immersion will help you reinforce what you know by seeing it used naturally in context. Unfortunately you probably can’t understand the context. Rewatching something you’ve already seen in English or other methods to make things as comprehensible as possible are worth trying. 1-5% comprehension. Feels like 5-30%.

  3. You know 1000-3000 words and basic grammar. Here you’ll start picking up full sentences and probably have your first dunning-krueger moment. This is probably the moment when immersion learning feels viable for lots of people. 10-60% comprehension. Feels like 30-80%.

  4. You know 3000-5000 words and common grammar. Here you’ll be dealing far more with full sentences however plenty of vocabulary is unknown and there will constantly be grammar you don’t know even if you think you do. 20-80% comprehension. Feels like 40-95%.

  5. You know 5000-10,000 words and some written grammar. Here you’ll be able to grasp most sentences but you’ll start to realise that vocabulary is a massive problem and probably the main boss until you’re advanced. 30-90% comprehension. Feels like 50-98%.

  6. You know 10,000-20,000 words and understand most grammar in most contexts. Here you should have no issues with sentences in basically any context and instead will be more concerned about nuance. Vocabulary is still a massive problem. 50-95% comprehension. Feels like 60-99%. (I am here now)

  7. I can no longer talk from experience but you can extrapolate.

I would also say that you can bounce up and down in comprehension simply by changing media types or domains. It’s a personal choice if you want to narrowly focus on one thing to quickly build comprehension in that area or if you want to consume widely or both. If you have a clear goal (e.g., watch anime) the just focus on that, would be my advice. If your goal is wide (e.g., become good at Japanese) then there is a lot more to worry about.

My opinion regarding immersion is that the higher your ability the more effective it is. There are multiple reasons for this (it’s more pleasant, you can more easily acquire words and kanji and grammar, you’re used to learning Japanese, you probably have direct use for what you’re learning more immediately, higher context makes acquisition easier, etc). Some of the comments in this thread make immersion sound painful - that goes away if you have higher comprehension as you’re just consuming the thing at that point.

I’d agree that 80% is the point where you can feel the effects far more readily. The value of immersing below that point are for things like getting used to sounds, getting used to kanji, picking up individual words, noticing social patterns, noticing gestures, familiarising yourself with cultural things, motivation of being in contact with the language, etc. If it is a slog and it makes you want to not study the just put it on hold until later. For most English speaking online learners it is purely a hobby so enjoyment should be prioritised.

I also didn’t mention like 聞き取り ability or kanji but they play a large role, naturally, and are skills in themselves that will depend on what sort of media you consume.

Anyway, again good luck and just stick with studying and trying and things will eventually come together if you put the time in!

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