I don’t really know what to do, and I’ve even thought about quitting

Japanese
#21

Are you Spanish by any chance?
Saying that because of the “Official School Language” and your nickname.

I would still go for the first level class. Note that you are only studying for one year and you already achieved a lot, but in the grand scheme of things it is not that much. N4 level is probably A2 at best.

And probably the test you were given was doable for the students after first year. So imagine yourself in one year being able to write a short essay in Japanese and being able to have a short conversation on a given topic!

Also you will meet other learners and it can boost your motivation.

With what you already know you will have a good heads up and the first few months will be easy and it will increase your confidence. I am sure that you will learn new things after those first few months.

Also you should keep going with self study at the same time.

Good luck!

1 Like
#22

I don’t think posts like these are helpful. It’s clear from the OP there’s a part of them that doesn’t want to quit. On a website for learning Japanese, why discourage someone from learning Japanese?

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#23

Because it seems like they want to quit and are looking for a way to justify it. But they don’t need to justify it. If you want to quit, quit. If you want to continue, continue.

#24

the op seeking for help, writing negative stuff is useless and rude imo.

Dear op, you need to seek a goal to reach. Set your goal and try to reach that point. As a person who gave up and started again a lot of time, this works. Good luck and never give up!

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#25

Language learning consists of many layers of both soft and hard skills: vocabulary, grammar, kanji (for Japanese or Chinese), speaking, and even more abstract elements like context clues. So rather than feeling like you wasted your time because you failed an exam that tested areas you weren’t fully prepared for, why not try the JLPT if you want to focus on those three skills?

I passed N3 within two years, then went on a solo trip to Japan. Most of the time, I couldn’t communicate in full sentences and had to get by with words and phrases.

It’s nothing to be sad about. Learning a language is a never-ending cycle of acquiring new knowledge. Books and study resources(especially focusing on exam like JLPT) can never cover every real-life situation you’ll face.

In short, set realistic goals and be open to your “failures”

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#26

Ive been learning japanese for the same time as you, but
have read about 3 novels, learned 6000 Vocabulary, 2000 Kanji, and have finished all the grammar points on Bunpro twice, with 90% sitting at Expert right now. All by paying 5 dollars a month for bunpro and 10 for Migaku, and thats it.

What I mean is that you are definitelly doing something wrong and investing your money into the wrong things that dont seem to work for you.
We live in a time where the “Academic” approach is outdated and there are multiple better options to learn things.

I have a nice habit of collecting literally every resource inside a document, so if you want some advice I can give you this document. Maybe it can help you find a more productive approach.

#27

Apologies for my bluntness, but already you have received a lot of support so imma cut to the chase. The one thing that stood out to me is this: in what world is handwriting not a useful task when learning a language?

Even if you don’t plan to use it, it helps you memorise and identify the characters far better, and improves your production capacity rather than just recognition. It’s a super important skill and great way to learn what you in your case actually want to learn - whether you intend to use it or not. If you introduce writing into your study plan you’ll find the rest comes a lot easier, I reckon. Don’t lose hope, just don’t put yourself in a box. You might think it makes it simpler but it just makes it harder in the end.

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#28

May I also have access to said document? :pray: :bowing_man: お願い致します

#29

Good input above. Reconfirming your goals renews your commitment.

Writing by hand is essential for learning. When you’re beyond the 2200 you need to be able to distinguish the many, many more kanji that you will encounter.

I started studying Japanese in 1983 at nighttime courses at UCLA extension, went to Japan in 1984 and understood nothing; had an hour weekly with a tutor from 1985 to 1987, travelled to Japan numerous times still understood nothing; lived in Tokyo studying with a private tutor from 1992 to 2000, and understood very little. At the time, a westerner actually fluent in Japanese was a rarity and capable of becoming - just on that skill alone - a 有名人 banking lots of (at the time) highly valued yen.

I started again from scratch in 2021, completed Wanikani and BunPro N5 through N1, but I still review both constantly - at all levels - 4 to 5 hours a day. I realized the importance of writing by hand as I would easily forget when I hadn’t been recently exposed to a character or a grammar point, but when I now travel to Japan, I understand quite a bit even though I still can’t properly converse.

I study Japanese to distract myself from a world that has become hostile to my world view and the fact that I am an easy-to-disregard old white male. But I consider it a lifetime endeavor that will continue to make my future months-long visits to Japan even more enriching as Japanese culture respects the aged and the knowledge and experience age represents.

OP, most people who claim to speak Japanese simply don’t. Don’t be discouraged. For me “learning” Japanese has been tougher than a chemistry degree, an MBA (stupidly easy), a JD, and passing the Cali Bar combined. Or, of course, I could just be rubbish at learning languages.

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#30

Just asking: OP do you like doing Bunpro and Wanigani?

I’d seen some comments about the subject of motivation here, if I understand my non-educated armchair psychology knowledge right, people are motivated when a process feels right, not the other way around. Yes we all had an initial fascination with something Japan-related, and I think you don’t need to love the the grind to endure the incomprehensible monotony of learning Japanese (you asked the question on a forum for a SRS system so answer will be biased towards SRS methods), you have to find the right method or process so it can be fun, there are myriads of different ways to do things, find one that fits you and maybe you even fall in love with the process afterwards.

For someone who in their words barely handles an applied Japanese communication situation, the OP seems very self aware of their shortcomings? Isn’t that strange, I wonder why? I don’t mean it in a direct way, OP seems clever so instead of overanalysing and doubting yourself you should reflect the language and advices of information about learning Japanese you might read. There is a lot of black and white thinking about methods (“early output is bad”, “academic approaches are of the past”, “grind this grind that”, “nobody is interested to talk to a beginner”), is what you read ever backed by science? A lot of people in the “learning Japanese” internet bubble have controversial arguments to push their products and courses, IMO more than in other language communities. There are people who try to one-up each other with sometimes very unsociable approaches, yet every person I meet who can actually speak Japanese, learned it through speaking.

Take a step away from the internet, have fun with Japanese, if it’s media do it with your native subtitles, if you like cooking learn to cook some Japanese recipe, do something IRL like martial arts, Ikebana, calligraphy, read Japanese philosophy or poetry, you get the point.

3 Likes
#31

Well, for me Bunpro and Wanikani, specially Wanikani, seem like a “game”. I do poorly with books since a book doesn’t stipulate a frame in which a task starts and ends. For me to get home after 11 hours of work (8 working, 1 for lunch, 2 commuting) and have the will to pick up a book and say “Ok I’ll study for 1 hour”… it doesn’t work with me.

I’m more attracted to challenges and Bunpro + Wanikani seem more like a challenge or a quiz for me. I have X reviews, I do all of them, I have a score and still I feel like I’m learning. Everything is structured by levels, you can feel the progress, etc. I know I can do that with a book too if I say “Ok 1 unit per week, 4 units a week…” but I also chose to do it this way so I could practice anywhere, anytime. I know I have 2 hours of commuting five days a week, so I spend those 2 hours a day doing my SRS. Now when I arrive at home, I tend to write the whole hiragana and katakana at least once. And after that I just try to decompress and relax.

Sadly, my routine is limited. I wake up at 7AM and arrive home most of the times at 8PM. I could be one of those guys who reach home, eat dinner in 20 minutes and then pick up the books and keep studying for 2-3 hours more, but I don’t think that’s the way or even the typical student. At least in the west.

As I said, I like Bunpro and Wanikani because of the gamification. I like videogames and I choose to play them in japanese with subtitules if that’s the case. And sometimes I watch anime, but that’s not my main hobby. I watch 90% of movies or tv shows in English and the rest could be anime movies or shows, but mostly movies since I don’t like long shows, plus I don’t enjoy most of the anime cliches. One of my favourite anime movies could be Tokyo Godfathers, since it is a “regular” movie, but animated.

I do know that the internet (even this post as you see) is full of people saying I learnt japanese in 3 months, I memorized 2000 kanji in 3 weeks and I passed N1 in less than a year. But I don’t believe those claims most of the time, I know learning a language is extremely hard, and learning japanese specifically is even harder.

I also coincide with you about finding your way. Different people recommend different approaches and I completely believe that no one has an specific answer or method that is better than other. Every journey is different, every person has different routines, native languages, free time, good skills, bad skills, access to native people around them… so I’m calm regarding finding or not finding my way with japanese. It is trial and error.

After reading all the answer, I also convinced that stepping away from the “classic” japanese learning story and achievements is key to not burnout. I need embrace japanese as a hobby, and not a job or and arduous task. And right now I’m more close to burning and seeing it as a tedious task than a “happy” thing that got involved with my life.

Thanks for your comment!

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#32

I don’t think this approach works.

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#33

More than happy to receive that document.

1 Like
#34

Not much that hasn’t been said here. My two cents:

  • Based on what you described, I think you just need to cycle through private tutors until you find one that meets your needs. Annoying, yes, but necessary. Quality and personality match vary a ton. Classes are fine, but writing is a part of mastery, so it will be necessary in an academic scenario.
  • Quitting is 100% on the table. Reaffirm why you want to learn the language and understand that fluency at the level where immersion is less study than enjoyment is a 5 year plan for category 4 languages. The payoff may not be worth the effort.
1 Like
#35

What approach? I didnt name one.
Since you didnt really provide as little as any information, or an argument, I cant really understand what you mean.

If you mean my general advice to “do it your own way”, obviously there is no approach that works for everyone and “doing it your own way” might not be the best for everyone (it works incredibly well for me, personally. I am able to read N3-N2 novels with confidence in a span of around one year of learning), but considering OPs approach of relying on others to teach them is not working for them, it is only smart to consider a totally different approach-- have you tried it? You will be suprised at how effective it can be.

If you mean the “collecting information” approach, then that is not true. In fact, there are multiple studies that show that collecting the data you know inside a document is one of the best things you can do when learning anything.

#36

Homeboy, I have seen you do this on other threads. You need to stop being aggressive/disparaging to other users. Simply saying “What approach?” is fine enough.

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