I don’t really know what to do, and I’ve even thought about quitting

[MonoTranslucido]

I’ve been learning Japanese on my own for about 13 months. I started with the syllabaries out of curiosity and interest in Japanese culture. Then I decided to learn some kanji, and from there I began to take it more seriously, dedicating between 1 and 2 hours a day. I chose the Wanikani + Bunpro combo, and at this point I’ve burned about 1,400 items, nearly 300 kanji (Level 15), and I’m about two months away from completing the N4 level in Bunpro (Grammar). I’ve already gone past 2,000 vocabulary words, although many of them I still haven’t fully memorized.

At this point, two months ago, I decided to get a tutor. I invested some money and had one one-hour class per week. It wasn’t much, I know, but I wanted to try the experience, and unfortunately, it didn’t go very well. So I stopped taking classes with that teacher and decided to change my approach: applying to the Official School of Languages in my city.

To enter the school, I could enroll in the first level. For context, the school follows the European system, with A1 as the lowest level, then A2, B1, B2, C1, and finally C2 as the highest.

After studying for a year, I decided to take the placement test to see which level I could start at (in my case, I was wondering if I could start at A2 or if I’d have to begin at the very bottom, A1).

My expectation was that the test would measure grammar, vocabulary, kanji recognition, writing, listening, and speaking. A complete exam with varied exercises.

However, when I got there, the teacher announced that the test would only consist of writing a short essay and giving a brief monologue on a given topic. No exercises, no listening, nothing else to assess our knowledge.

In short, my test was a disaster. Over this past year, I chose not to learn handwriting in hiragana, katakana, or kanji, since many learners of Japanese mention that the chances of actually needing to handwrite as a hobby learner are extremely low. A bad approach? Maybe. But my goal has always been to understand Japanese in written and spoken form, and to be able to hold conversations and chat with Japanese people by email or instant messaging. In my plan, handwriting wasn’t a priority, since I took Japanese as a hobby and not as a job requirement, for example.

My writing test was awful. Speaking? Even worse, since it’s always been my weakest skill. I got nervous, barely managed to say one coherent sentence, then said something meaningless, and after that… I collapsed, decided to drop the test, and left feeling very embarrassed.

I still haven’t received the results (I’ll get them today or tomorrow), but most likely the teachers will place me in the lowest level, given my performance.

At this point, I’m considering three approaches.

1. Enroll in the Official School of Languages, even at the lowest level. I know I lack fluency and need to improve my speaking. Advantages: the school is cheap, less than $200 for a whole year of classes. Disadvantages: I’ll probably get bored at many points, and I have zero interest in handwriting with pen and paper, since I see no use for it in my daily life (I don’t plan to move to Japan, work in Japan… it’s just a hobby for me, and I don’t even know any Japanese people). Another drawback is that the school is a bit far and requires in-person attendance. On the other hand, attending class with others brings experiences, community, and a group feeling.
2. Skip the school and instead find a private tutor who focuses on my personal goals (especially speaking, since my progress with kanji, vocabulary, and grammar hasn’t been bad). Disadvantages: the cost would be $100–200 a month, $1,200–2,400 a year, compared to the mere $200 for the school. I could do it from home, but I’d miss out on meeting people, community, etc.
3. Quit Japanese altogether and end it here. Right now I feel like I’ve “wasted” a year, since I haven’t even managed to learn the most basic level. My methodology failed, or I wasn’t able to cover all areas equally (this exam was the first time I ever wrote Japanese on paper, not to mention the speaking fiasco). Maybe it’s time to switch hobbies and invest my limited free time in something more “worthwhile.”

After more than a year, I’m probably at my lowest point of motivation. This test felt like a cold shower of reality, and at the same time, I feel it was unfair, since I couldn’t show all my knowledge.

The excitement I had each month, noticing progress, has largely vanished. After learning 300 kanji, 2,000 vocabulary words, multiple verb forms, keigo… to then enroll in the same class as someone who knows nothing about the language feels like a crushing defeat and an unappealing prospect.

I’m here looking for advice and at the same time personal experiences to help me decide what to do next.

Thanks for reading, and sorry for the rant. Honestly, I don’t have anyone else to turn to about this problem.

[Nydren]

I think you have a couple options. First I think you should evaluate if you truly wish to keep pursuing Japanese, as if you are considering quitting you should understand what you want out of the language and what wouldn’t be a waste for you. Not hitting your goals can be frustrating for sure, but I’d like to offer some encouragement on that front. If you do not prioritize writing then don’t feel upset about the test, as everyone has their own personal goals.

The school could be a good place to gain some speaking and writing experience, but most importantly build connections. Finding other friends to learn with can offer motivation, enjoyment, corroboration, and more. As for whether you want to spend $200 on something like that, that is up to your discretion. You could also try to build these connections online through things like discord or any website designed for talking to foreigners.

The tutor is a very pricey decision, especially for something you are considering quitting. I would not advise investing that much into something unless you are absolutely sure you want to continue, as worst case you quit down the line while also down $2k. I would recommend waiting a bit and doing either self study, or taking the in person class first, before making that financial decision. Maybe after a bit more time and more confidence in your decision to learn Japanese it could be a good investment.

Understanding your goals and desired results for learning Japanese is essential to pursuing it long term, as you need to understand exactly what you want out of it and why you are learning it to begin with. You can shape your studying and plans around said goals.

All in all, I wish you good luck and would encourage you to keep on persisting. Everyone has their own strengths, weaknesses, goals, learning styles, schedules, etc. so don’t beat yourself up.

Tl;dr I’d recommend establishing connections regardless of whether it is irl or online, and evaluating your goals and desires with Japanese before making any major financial decisions.

[Edo9]

I definitely sympathize with this. The feeling of having knowledge but having nothing to show for it when it comes to things like actually performing in the target language.

I’ve failed, I’ve failed a lot in Japanese. I’ve failed probably 10 times more than I’ve had successes. But I kept coming back because it’s something that I love. And that’s something you have to ask yourself, do I love this? Cause when it comes to Japanese, you either have to love it or need it. And if you’re just looking at stats and numbers as a measurement of success in the language, you gotta ask yourself, what am I really doing this for?

The fact that you’re contemplating quitting, have no intention of going to Japan and don’t know any Japanese people leads me to believe that maybe you don’t love this. And if you don’t it’s okay. But if you quit and it keeps coming back to you in one form or another, maybe it’s a sign. And it you love something it will find it’s way back into your life.

So give it some thought. I’ve known many people who quit and many more who pressed on. My prediction is that even if you quit, you’re so far deep in that you won’t be out of it for long. It will always be a part of you at this point whether you like it or not. So give it some thought.

[travv0]

I don’t have much to say that hasn’t been said already, but out of curiosity, what part of tutoring didn’t go very well?

Also, I’d strongly recommend that even if you quit, you continue to do your SRS reviews. The number you have to do each day will get to be very low over time, and you’ll thank yourself if you do decide to pick Japanese up again in the future (or in my case, beat yourself up for not doing so and having to relearn most of what you had learned before).

[maurice620]

I agree with what everyone has said so far, and I really sympathize with your experience. It can be super hard to push yourself to do something you have interest in when you find yourself getting discouraged or turned off by the experiences you have along the way. I think my biggest piece of advice would be to try to stave off burnout - if you’re not having fun or finding any joy in your studies, don’t push yourself to do something you don’t have either a goal in or a reason for. Try to just rediscover what drew you to the language in the first place (i.e. media, the feeling of learning something new, etc.).

I also think you have more options! I’d recommend apps like HelloTalk or something where you can do language exchange with someone who speaks Japanese natively, since you mentioned not even knowing a Japanese person, and you can build a community on that platform, form friendships with native speakers, and have fun that way. Discord servers or even the forums here are a great option for finding friends who are also learning Japanese and probably share similar motivations and passions (HelloTalk will also allow you to interact with other Japanese learners i think).

It can be hard to practice speaking if you don’t know anyone to speak with (I also had similar problems in my language learning journey), and if you’re shy (like I am) then trying to speak just off the cuff in a language you don’t feel comfortable in can leave you feeling super vulnerable and afraid of making mistakes. What I personally did to counteract this is just talking to myself a bunch - either describing what I was doing, thinking, or feeling, (勉強しましょう！今は踊っています！何かたべたいなぁ), or reading aloud what I was using to study (i.e. the prompts/answers in Bunpro or a Genki workbook).

There’s also nothing wrong in giving yourself a break and coming back later once you’re feeling more motivated or have a better idea of how you want to pursue things. The most important thing to remember, there’s no point in making yourself feel like crap if there’s not a larger goal you’re working towards! This is supposed to be fun, and if it’s not, it’s ok to prioritize yourself and just do what makes you happy, whatever that might be.

Best of luck! We’re rooting for you here!

[MonoTranslucido]

Well basically I spent 2 months learning vocabulary and grammar that I already knew. The lessons were in my native language 99% of the time and the worst part: the teacher had the tendency of using most of the time speaking about him, his method, vague anecdotes or throwing long speeches about how people don’t understand Japanese learning, etc.

[BreadmanNin]

I don’t know if it means anything that I say this, but I’m very surprised by that entrance test and I’m not sure if I even find it fair or suitable for the purpose. I sympathise with you, and I think I would have produced the exact same result. I completely understand that handwriting has not been one of your learning priorities as it simply has much less practical use than any other skill. Doesn’t testing for the ability to handwrite an essay only divide the examinees into very advanced candidates and anything less than very advanced candidates?

Anyway, it’s no surprise that such a big number of setbacks damages your motivation. I hope you’ll find joy in it all again.

[travv0]

Definitely worth shopping around and finding one you vibe with if you decide to start up tutoring again.

[casual]

If I had to write anything by hand in Japanese, I’d fail that miserably, since I never learned to. I don’t think it’s a bad approach to skip handwriting, if your goals are to speak and write using a computer.

Perhaps it’s an idea to look for a school or a study group focused around skills that you care about, not handwriting? Maybe a meetup focused on beginner-level manga reading and discussion.

I also think that output is really really difficult until you’ve had enough input. I’ve spent a lot of time shadowing what I just heard, reading out loud, and speaking to myself, trying to reformulate the same sentence many times until it made sense.
But eventually, after a lot of input and practice, some new brain circuitry started to form, and suddenly I was able to exchange a few sentences with a Japanese colleague.

So, if you like the language, cheer up, laugh off the failure, get yourself a cake to celebrate this ambitious experiment, and keep going. Good luck.

[lunchbox1]

That’s an individual person problem, not a problem with tutoring or the language.

[rdennison7]

For something that’s supposed to be a hobby this post upsets me. Your post sounds miserable. Your experience equally so.

Statistically speaking, people who attempt a skillset that requires significant time and dedication whether it be language learning, programming, etc – most end up failing. That’s just something that’s important to keep in mind whenever you decide to jump into something.

To put in perspective, nearly half of all Bunpro users don’t make it beyond level 3.

I say this as you need to find something that holds deep meaning for you. Maybe it is Japanese and you’re having a bad day. Maybe you’re really good at breakdancing and don’t even realize it yet.

Whatever it may be, find something that speaks to you in such a way where you can tolerate repeated failure. Success is only derived from numerous failure. There is no other means. Failure sucks, it humbles you and makes you feel small, but that’s the only way to truly get good at something.

In my humble opinion, just stop doing this for a month. Not a day, not a week, a solid month. Don’t log into Bunpro, don’t do a review, just let this new habit of not doing Japanese manifest.

If after one month you decide to learn Japanese again, then do it. If not, then maybe it wasn’t meant for you and that’s okay.

Don’t be miserable with a hobby!

[Cynniminni]

First, given that you were consistent with WaniKani and Bunpro for over a year, and deliberately chose not to work on writing since that was not a part of your goal, I think saying your methodology failed is a wholly unfair statement against yourself.

Your methodology didn’t fail, it was the test that was given to you. They tested you on writing, which was the very thing you yourself stated was not a part of your goals. So of course you failed, but that doesn’t mean you failed at Japanese.

Take a break and chill out. A single Japanese test isn’t and shouldn’t define your learning experience when it doesn’t align with your goals to begin with. If you want to learn writing, then do so. If you don’t, then don’t. It is what you make of it.

For context, I began studying 9 years ago. I burnt out twice and took long breaks for most of those years. I’m still at N5 Japanese and I’m also just learning it as a hobby. I can read some sentences in manga, doujinshi, tweets, etc. now a lot more easily but I still can’t write a short essay in Japanese because-- surprise, surprise-- I never learned nor practiced writing a short essay in Japanese lol.

I crashed out this year from unrelated issues and restarted learning Japanese again, seriously this time and not as a hobby. I’m aiming to be officially certified in the long term. But this time I will take my studies much, much more slowly so I don’t burn out and become depressed.

And I’m year 9… you are in year 1 and a half. You’re doing fine. Take a break and come back later once you’ve rejuvenated

[KurokawaMasumi]

I wouldn’t bother with output beyond shadowing before N3 TBH.

Also there’s a reason why italki gets you to try out three different tutors at first.
I’ve had an absolutely terrible experience with one of them. If he were my first, and I gave it any significance, I’d have done myself a great disservice by not just trying out someone else.

When it comes to learning, the problem is not the learner, it’s the teacher. This applies to self-study too. If you can’t learn something you haven’t learnt how to teach yourself.

If you’re studying on your own and reaching your goals according to your own metrics that’s all that matters. Are you learning Japanese for someone else or for yourself?

Your problem is that you worry too much about how you’re perceived by others.

[chicharron]

Do you really like japanese? I think the best “method” there is, is to do whatever you like and whatever makes you look forward to keep learning. Do you like manga? Read it. Do you like anime? Watch it. Do you like books, movies, gaming? Do those things. (Not that you will magically be able to do these things, but these are things you could do after doing your reviews).

Sounds like you had an awful experience, but I think that shouldn’t make you to want to quit fully.
You say your goal is understanding it in written and spoken form, and eventually being able to talk to japanese people. In my experience (I’m also learning it as a hobby with no guidance at all) each of these are like a whole different skill. Learning to read it is a thing, to listen is another thing, etc. I think trying to learn and polish them all at once can be overwhelming (without guidance). Maybe you should focus on 1 thing at the time?

Or you could take a break from learning the language. Relax and then come back after a week or 2 and see how you feel whenever you go back to it again.

[Noxsora]

First: just because they tested you by writing an essay, and speaking- that doesn’t mean you have learned nothing. You learned in a different order by self-studing and that’s OK.
Second: Please join an in-person club. It can be the Japanese class or some other hobby. It’s been hard to make friends since graduation. Go to make friends, and then you can hang out and talk about Japan after class.
The rest is for if you decide you do want to study
Third: You say “I don’t plan to move to Japan, work in Japan… it’s just a hobby for me, and I don’t even know any Japanese people”. I’m going to guess that you are studing because anime. In that case, more anime will improve your motivation. There are lot’s of ways do this. Some are: https://learnjapanese.moe/, https://migaku.com, subs2srs, jpdb.io https://www.languagereactor.com/ and Jo-Mako's Japanese Guide - Immersion (I haven’t tried migaku).
A balence would be: 20分 watch an episode with Japanese subs, 20分 minutes bunpro grammar, 20分 minutes learning vocab with one of the tools I mentioned above.
Pick an anime that you love dearly and is fun to watch. I like Somali to Morikamisama, Dungeon Meshi and Full Metal Alchemist, cause I love fantasy. Don’t worry too much about what words are ‘useful’. 錬金術師(Alchemist)最大(biggest)の禁忌(sin)人体(human body)錬成(alchemize)をやったんだな(didn’t you) Is full of very important words for Full Metal Alchemist.
I loved learning kanji, but kanji is discuraging for alot of Japanese learners. I recomend putting that time into anime for now, and picking it back up when you have more energy.

[genjibear]

Just my two cents: I’d probably sign up to do the school. While you said you don’t need to learn writing it also doesn’t hurt anything to learn it, and if you can already recognize characters and kanji you’ll be a step ahead of everyone else in those regards so it’ll be faster to learn. It will also give you a chance to meet others interested in the language, make friends, and experience actual conversation and speaking skills that will help you and that you do want to learn.

Honestly, though, my guess is that the test was most likely more than just an issue of being written (though I think that’s part of it), and more a factor of being able to recognize much more than you can produce.

When we learn, recognition comes first. You can read before you can write, understand spoken language before you can speak, etc. Recognition is an easier skill, and moving from recognition to production takes a lot of effort and time. Most likely, because you are mostly learning from a memorization standpoint rather than a production standpoint, you most likely are much more skilled in recognition and find production challenging, which is why you faltered at speaking and writing.

Taking a class will require you to improve the production side of things. Now, if all you really want is to be able to read novels one day, you don’t necessarily need to have that ability, but if you want to be able to converse, you will need to find ways to learn production.

Formal classes are also beneficial because the teachers can teach you cultural concepts you may not otherwise learn as well as help you understand vocabulary and grammar better (at least, a good teacher will). A tutor can accomplish some of these things, but you will often spend less time overall than you would in a class, and I think there is more variability with tutors. It’s still closer to guided home-learning compared to a classroom setting.

Anyway, just my thoughts.

[Chimmsen]

The school doesn’t seem like a good fit for your approach or your personal goals. Consider this: if the test was a handwritten exam, how do you think the classes will be? Yes, probably lots of handwriting. Which you don’t have any interest in. So why would you do this to yourself?

Tutor? Why not? If you have the money and you find someone who you vibe withthis could be a very good approach.

You might find something that fits you even better, if you’d like to share your goals/motivation and such.

[zerohbeat]

That lightly feels like what I went through in a way! I initially started studying by myself. After one year, I applied for weekly evening lessons in a local college (about 1 hour and 30 minutes walk from home).

I had to do a placement test too as I did not want to start from zero. I wanted the next level. And wow, I thought I bombed it, had no writing practice beforehand and I did not practice speaking at all as I was studying by myself. Thankfully I talked to the teacher and explained everything and they let me go to the level I wanted, NOT the beginning level where its from zero. I still had to study a bit more initially of course and course correct a bit. I wrote loads of mini essays and practiced writing. It was a great way to double check my knowledge as there was a teacher who I could ask stuff.

In the end, it was great for me. I love writing anyway. My grammar improved and I spoke in class. Also the 1 hour and 30 min walk was really nice way to reset before going home. Personally going to a class is worth it as I just enjoy the social experience and makes studying Japanese feel more structured. Plus this way I met loads of people.

Personal time is precious. I would say, have a think what you want out of Japanese and go from there.