I seem to have offended someone

Japanese
#1

So not long ago I decided to start chatting with native Japanese speakers. I found a language exchange partner online and we’ve been chatting for a few weeks now, mostly though text. Well, when they first introduced themselves, they wrote their name in hiragana, which I’ve been using ever since. But I recently decided to ask what kanji they use and they refused to tell me, wondering what possible reason I might have for wanting to know that. I tried to explain, explaining that I’m fascinated by kanji, especially how they’re used in names; how I’m a student who is trying to learn Japanese and part of that is being able to read names, many of which use unconventional kanji; and I also likened it to an English speaker wanting to know how to properly spell an acquaintance’s name after an introduction.

Well, I’m not sure why, but this person seems to find this extremely “creepy” (their words). And that so-called “western kanji nerds” only view their language exchange partners as tools for learning Japanese, and not as actual people.

Needless to say, I’m bamboozled. Did I break some sort of super sensitive point of Japanese etiquette?

Also posted this in the WK forums.

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#2

Three possibilities come to mind:

  1. There has been a miscommunication (either on one side or both - maybe they don’t mean to be as offensive as they are being; maybe you asked in a strange or too persistent way)
  2. Their name doesn’t use kanji and they are annoyed with everyone asking on the app and then they have been rude about it to you (they would probably just say that if it were the case though).
  3. They are just rude and it isn’t really your fault. Sometimes people are just rude.

Most likely is 1 or 3 based on my experience but could even be a mix of all of them. They could consider the app more like an anonymous forum or something rather than a public profile (depends on the app) since lots of people only use online services anonymously. Even for LINE profiles lots of people use fake or slightly cryptic versions of their name and don’t use face pictures. Assuming communication was perfect and there is no missing context then they’re just being rude, intentionally or otherwise.

I will say that the frustration at feeling “used” is understandable as a lot of Japanese people only want to talk to me (initially) because I am a native English speaker/gaijin but even if you feel frustrated sometimes that is no excuse to be rude or lash out. Also, you know, they are also using the language exchange app…

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#3

  1. This is definitely a possibility. I have said some things that were worded in ways as to be extremely offensive (accidentally), but this person has been nothing but understanding, and even thought that most of it was very funny.

  2. They told me that their name uses weird kanji and that they only use them when signing their name.

  3. Up to now, this person has been very understanding and kind. Like I said, we’ve been chatting for weeks now and it’s been very pleasant.

I’m really quite confused here. They did use a face picture on their profile, but I have no way of knowing if it’s real. The name is a very standard Japanese name, although again, I have no way of knowing if it’s real. This is all on LINE. We met through My Language Exchange but switched to LINE because it’s easier. And I really don’t understand the accusation of me viewing them as nothing but a language tool, because we speak English about twice as often as we speak Japanese, because their English is far superior to my Japanese.

I dunno, just confused and bummed. I guess we’ll see what they say when/if they respond to me again.

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#4

This probably tells you all you need to know.

How ironic. Right after labeling you as a ‘western kanji nerd’. :man_facepalming:

Nothing saying you can’t have multiple language exchange partners. Maybe trying someone else out will be more rewarding than trying to figure out why someone got offended over something you meant no offense by. (Perhaps later on in your journey, you’ll be able to figure out what – if anything – offended them.)

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#5

Yeah we’ll see. I’ll also see what they say when/if they send me another message. They usually message me at the absolute crack of dawn.

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#6

Being as charitable as possible they maybe meant “I personally feel uneasy when people ask about my name’s kanji since they are unique and I don’t like using them so, therefore, when language exchange partners ask me about it it stands out as being something I find uncomfortable since outside official situations it isn’t something that people really ask me in real life” but their English or social skills aren’t up to expressing this. That’s assuming the best though…

If you keep talking to them perhaps ask them to phrase what they meant naturally in Japanese and you can see if they are actually being flat out rude. In English it certainly sounds a bit tone deaf though, even if they intended it to be tongue-in-cheek. Like I would sarcastically call my friends creepy and nerds but the tone has to be correct. I hope it works out well and you don’t stay too bummed out about it for too long.

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#7

I can transcribe a bit of what they said. This comes right after I explained my reasoning for being interested in the kanji, and after they said, in English, that kanji nerds don’t see them as a person, but as a “something”.

それ、ちょっと気持ち悪いと思う。(笑)
ごめん、正直に言っちゃった。(笑)
私は一人の人間です。どちらも日本語を話さなければきっと(my name)は私と話さないと思います。

When I replied with confusion, and wondering why they would say such a thing, they responded with “kanji nerds from overseas are like that.”

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#8

This happened to a person I know through discord, which happens to have a Japanese person in it!
If I recall, she (the Japanese person) said that there are people who’s names are spelled with unique kanji, and in those cases sharing could be giving away very personal information which would allow others to find them on Facebook or whatnot.

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#9

(Originally this was longer and suggested a reply but I don’t want to tell you how to deal with your own social situation since it is unrelated to the Japanese language itself.)

Honestly I think this isn’t as bad is your intial post made it seem, in my opinion, although still not a positive interaction. They’re just just saying they feel uncomfortable and then seem to want you to confirm that you’re actually friends and not just language exchange partners. Like maybe they enjoy talking about stuff other than Japanese with you (or at least kanji - Japanese people do not find kanji interesting for the most part). They wouldn’t have sent that last sentence if they didn’t want to keep talking, in my opinion, if you have been actual friends for weeks as you say.

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#10

I hope this won’t come off as mean and rather it can be helpful. Though I will be blunt.
So I think you did mess up in this situation. If someone says that aren’t okay with sharing, you shouldn’t keep persisting. Next, trying to justify yourself by saying you’re only interested in the kanji is a bit cold. You could learn names by so many different methods. Your friend probably felt hurt and annoyed by this. People are more private with their information. Of course every person is different. However, I have been living in Japan for a while and I think it takes a little longer to form close relationships, especially if you are doing so through the internet. People take caution with not sharing unique kanji with a person they have only known for a short while and haven’t met in person.
I don’t think you had any bad intentions at all. You seem like a genuine and nice person. Just remember if someone expresses discomfort with something please respect it.

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#11

No that’s fine, and it is helpful. I will say that I didn’t try to push the issue. I was just trying to explain why I was interested, and perhaps bridge a cultural divide.

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#12

I believe in terms of western standards you probably didnt. Though, this is just what I have heard, it seems that in the west some of our conversation styles can be seen as persistent. I have been told by co-workers and friends that sometimes westerners are intimidating because of this “pushiness”. Though I am sure you and your friend can work through this easily! The art of intercultural conversation will be a great skill to hone. I can’t tell you how many times I have been a victim of not recognizing my very American conversational patterns.

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#13

Just want to echo this. This is a relatively common concern for privacy minded Japanese folks.

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#14

You did absolutely nothing wrong. I’ve asked the same question many many times of people and never had a poor response. My guess is that you were either A: exceptionally unlucky, or B: talking to someone that doesn’t have kanji in their name, and is embarrassed about it.

Anyone that ever meets them in Japan knows what kanji their name is. Companies etc for the most part don’t use kana.

The only way that I could possibly rationalize their response is the way you phrased your question, which I have no idea about at all. If you’re not keen on sharing, here’s how I usually phrase such a question.

はるなという名前は、色んな漢字の可能性があるけどはるなのはなに？

(Yes I usually speak very casually) Using this as an example cause a lady that works at a yakiniku place I frequent is called Haruna, is super chill and it’s the same name as my partner.

Edit - @CursedKitsune hit the possibilities on the head.

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#15

You didn’t do anything wrong here, its the person who was talking to you being rude. The ‘western kanji nerd’ should tell you

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#16

I feel bad for going around collecting Japanese people’s kanji now and ruining it for you…

日本人：はじめまして
me: enough of this chat-chat, what’s your kanji? How many strokes is it? What does it mean? Why did your parents pick it? I just googled it, I found pictures of someone eating yakitori in yokohama, is it you? Can I get your kanji tatto’d on my arm? I’ve already got all of my best friend’s kanji on there, I’m up to a 100 now… Can I? Can I? Hello? Why am I blocked?

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#17

I would like to consider 2 additional possibilitys ：

  1. They hate their own culture.

  2. They have a kirakira name.

But your point’s might be more likely i guess.

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#18

I’ve asked this question to many of my Japanese friends and never have had a response like that. I guess this particular person is cautious about their online presence.

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#19

I don’t think this is a reflection of you, as much as it is on your language partner.

In my experience, when I ask my Japanese friends for the kanji in their names, some of them just spell it out for me and that’s it, and some of them seem reluctant out of shame (100% my perspective, not a reflection of actual culture) over how complicated they perceive Japanese to be. Kinda not wanting to “bother” me with complicated information.

I had a dish washing job when I lived in Japan (this is before I was hired in Bunpro), one of my managers would go as far as to type out the readings of each kanji she used or just type completely in hiragana. The guy I worked with was amazed when I was able to read his name (中村 of all last names, lmao). To me it felt like it came out of a place of kindness, if a little misaligned.

If it’s on a language exchange site, I think it’s just this one guy being weirdly xenophobic about kanji learners. My guess is that they had a very bad experience with a foreigner being pedantic or patronizing how much they knew about kanji, it’s amazing how many learners seem to assume Japanese people want to match their learning drive.

Don’t think too much about it, you’re probably good. :+1: Also you can never be 100% sure people on the internet are who they say they are.

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#20
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