Is it important to read/watch the sources?

Bunpro
#1

Under every single grammar point, there is the “readings” section with a bunch of sources that dives deeper into the meaning of each grammar point. This interested me, but holy sh*t there is a lot. It seems that there is much more to every single grammar point, and I decided to dive deeper into the meaning of “desu”, and that took me around an hour or two. Is it really necessary to go through this long process to learn more about each grammar point, or is it not? The things I learned seemed important, but I’m not gonna lie, this process is tedious. Also, there was a bunch of stuff I didn’t even know what meant. Like, what is a clause? What’s a noun phrase? I might not know these things because English is my second language.

Anyway, I just wanted to ask if it is necessary to go through all these sources to actually understand these grammar points. Will I be able to understand and use Japanese just fine if I ignore these sources?

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#2

I would say the N5/4 are pretty fundamental, it would be hard to progress with out mastering it (unlike kanji or vocab). I think users have handled this is several ways, either using a book study path or supplementing outside study (or the readings like you mentioned). Beginners are likely to have many questions on rules so I think readings are helpful. But to use the reviews only, others could comment but I think it would difficult. But conjugation rules for adj/verbs and particle usage takes alot practice (or at least for me) so some outside study may help because BP may not be enough. Not every grammar point is equal…some are very simple while other have alot of depth that requires a deeper dive. A Dictionary of Basic Japanese Grammar gives alot of depth of explanation you may not find here (an old favorite). Genki is very popular along with the other book paths. To answer your question directly, I would gauge it per grammar point how you are grasping it but expect some extra practice. We have the grammar message board too for help.

The later grammars points, it’s it a bit different. Most technical should be second nature, it’s more about nuance, exceptions, execution and understanding differences between similar grammar points (and sheer memorization). So reading about the comparisons can be helpful. Luckily, BP has many example sentences; one of it’s many assets. So many times, just reading through the sentences can fulfill many of these questions as well while others take some time or combine with other grammar points.

These are just creative grammar structures. For example you could make a complete sentence (clause) to describe a noun or as a topic marker. I believe a noun phrase is very similar, just doesn’t have a subject so not a complete sentence (likely a pre-modifying verb for a noun). But I find reading actual Japanese examples with translation makes alot more sense rather than understanding what I just described.

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#3

Personally I’d say it’s a bit like how you learn science. For example at first someone might explain electricity as being like water flowing through a pipe, or an atom as being like the solar system. Both explanations are good enough to help someone begin to understand how they work/behave, before going onto more complex models. Similarly I don’t think it’s worth spending hours worrying about the intricacies of a grammar point, when all you care about initally is a general idea of what it means and where it goes in a sentence.

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#4

I already knew the very basic N5 grammar when I started Bunpro so I only skimmed through a few of the sources to refresh my memory.

A complete beginner should definitely read through some of the grammar resources for the fundamental N5 and N4 points. It will definitely get less towards N3. I find myself skipping many of the extra reading bits now because the Bunpro explanation and example sentences suffice.
However, even though many of the more sophisticated grammar patterns are simply combinations of things I have seen before there is definitely a use to those further reading recommendations. Many of those patterns have similar meanings with different nuances.
For that reason I always make sure to read those resources that compare a few different grammar points and explore their nuances. (Usually there is like a StackExchange post or Bunpro forum post linked that compares them if that is applicable).

However I think some of the linked resources can be a bit too much to process at once if all you want is to get a basic grasp of the grammar.
Like what you described about spending an hour on learning what です means, plus more technical jargon, that sounds a bit like Imabi. And while I like Imabi for it’s depth and deep background explanations, I don’t think it is the most suitable for quickly getting started.

Judging what is too much information is difficult for a beginner and everybody learns slightly differently. But one thing is clear: if you spend too much time reading dry grammar resources and don’t get enough results to get your dopamine flowing you are more likely to get frustrated and quit.
So my recommendation: read those resouces that focus mostly on teaching you how to interpret and use a grammar point (like Tae Kim or Maggie sensei’s guides, among others), then move on and see how you are doing in practice. You can always come back to the more elaborate resources later.

Oh and about the technical jargon: it is useful to at least have a basic grasp on the most common terms. You don’t need to become a scientist for this. Many of these concepts are fairly simple to understand, at least for our purposes. If the explanation for a term reads more like a Wikipedia article then you should probably go find a different explanation.

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#5

I haven’t really used the reading sections unless I’m experiencing trouble with a particularly grammar point.

Not sure if that’d work for you, but if I end up encountering it in real life somewhere and I’m not understanding the usage, I then go and look up more about it.

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#6

I would always go through the Reading section. You get a feel for which resources are valuable and which ones go so heavily into nuance that it’s not worth the time investment (yet).

I would also pick up Dictionary of Basic Japanese Grammar and look up each point in that. It’s by far the best resource on that list.

Remember you can always go back and review the resources for grammar points you are struggling with at a later date, or for understanding nuance once you have a good grasp of the basics usage.

Honestly, I tend to go straight for Tae Kim and Japanese Ammo and then supplement with the dictionary. I found Maggie Sensei too long winded and I don’t like the way the page is formatted. I’m sure that I will appreciate that website more at a later date when I want an utterly exhaustive review of every single use of something.

#7

Did you ever sit and read linguistic explanations about the grammar points in your native language? If people asked you about grammar rules in your native language could you explain most of them? Can you use the grammar in your native language fine despite (probably) lacking an explicit understanding of the grammar rules?

As you said, there’s a lot of linguistic terminology you need to learn just to understand grammar explanations. Personally, I hate reading about grammar. I read through Tae Kim and some other things, but I mostly just add points on Bunpro to become aware that the grammar points exist and know roughly what they mean and then I just try to read and listen to a lot of Japanese to gain more intuitive familiarity with them over time.

Then, later if I go back and read more detailed explanations it’s easier to understand them and I can understand more of the specific nuance of each point over time rather than trying to understand each grammar point completely from the beginning.

As others said, you can also just read more about the particular ones you have the most trouble with.

If you can stomach reading through the explanations and those kinds of explanations ‘click’ for you, then I’m sure it’s good to do, but otherwise, just do whatever helps you move forward more smoothly.

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#8

It’s helpful, I’m not gonna sit here and say that deep grammar dives and explanations aren’t helpful. I mean, we’re all on Bunpro after all. But for me personally, the ‘‘aha’’ moments happened experiencing Japanese in the wild. (Consuming media, speaking, listening in on conversations) Then going back and reading the explanations sort of smooths things out.

Whatever floats your boat. I don’t think it’s necessary to take a deep dive every time, but my method is slow and steady.

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#9

As for me, I completely ignore the Readings section, but thoroughly read all sentences in the Example section. It’s enough for me to have a basic grasp. You will see your newly studied grammar in your immersion content for sure.

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#10

I just do reviews and basically never look deeper into the overall function. Mostly because I think English explanations are trying to fit square pegs into round holes most of the time. To really understand grammar and its function I basically try to read a lot and find it in the wild. Even bare bones Bunpro is good because it keeps grammar points in your head for that time you do come across it.

#11

This is what I do too. It’s easy to get lost juggling exceptions and nuances. I think I learn more if I just see the thing in use.

#12

I gauge each grammar point, because I know just by looking sometimes “ooh, this one is gonna be a pain in my behind”. For those ones, I’ll read through stuff properly. But some I’ll look at and go “ah, piece of cake” and I’ll just use the example sentences. Not all grammar is created equal, or something to that effect.

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#13

I’ve been thinking about this for the last… well, 7 hours according to my last reply! If I had to learn Japanese from the start again, instead of going in Bunpro’s order, I’d use another resource and just add grammar points as I encounter them in the other resource.

That’s what I’m doing with Tae Kim’s lessons at the moment. In the WaniKani forums, several users repeatedly say that Bunpro is great for maintenance but it’s ill-suited for the first time you’ve seen the grammar point. I think that’s the case for any cloze-text-based assessment. I’ve found that Bunpro is best for when I already weakly know a point and want to muscle-memorize it.

Aside from that, as a math prof, the best way to study is to alternate reading and practice, specifically practice that forces recall like SRS. I’d recommend that you read maybe one of the listed articles, then practice, then read more if the concept isn’t sticking or when you feel like it’s time to get the nuances and exceptions down. But don’t hold yourself to expecting to remember every last wrinkle the first time you read it. I can’t even do that with my course materials!

#14

I don’t really do the reading here, I don’t even look up the reading section matherials. BUT (and that’s a huge one but) I used Genki where all the N5-N4 stuff were explained. And now when I moved on to N3 I am using Chukuuy e ikou which gives suplemmentary explanation.

About clauses and such… Whichever book you choose to use they gonna use all this vocab at some point. You cannot explain the grammar without naming thing. So you can stick with a book wich goes easy on a lerner doesn’t expect them to know all the grammatical terms out there… Like Minna no nihongo for example. Also there’s Tae Kim’s grammar guide. It’s isn’t flawless and a lot of people like to hate on it. BUT for a beginner with no prior knowledge it’s great (speaking from expereince). Just don’t use it as your primary sourse.

Also personally I’d agree that learning grammar is tedious but it really helpes. Sometimes you just have to read tones and tones of explanations and examples before you actually ‘get it’…

#15

Personally, I don’t read every source listed on the readings section, there’s a lot of text and I don’t like reading on screens. I prefer watch a video about the grammar topic on YT and depending on the case, I read my grammar books.
As some have said, the Dictionary of Basic Japanese Grammar is one of the best resources, I’m glad I could buy it for a good price.

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