I finally did it! I started in February with Bunpro, Wanikani, and Duolingo. I have finally finished all the N5 grammar and N5 vocab. Yet when I am speaking or trying to make good sentences I draw blanks because I am a penguin in the desert. I don’t have any japanese speaking friends. What should I do to improve. I started using busuu but is there a study buddy group or something?
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Got a weird one:
Talk to an imaginary friend / have imaginary conversations whenever you have down time (e.g. while driving).
Gets those reps in for pronunciation and coming up with things on the spot.
You’ll feel like a weirdo but it helped me a bunch
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How do I learn the sentences to say. Ill say dou desu ka, and then I run blanks. Is there a way to learn full sentences? I know phrases like oname wa, or shusshin desu ka, but nothing natural sentence wise.
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Hmmm that’s a good point. Being post-N5, it would be hard to have all the tools to have a natural feeling conversation.
Depends what your goals are, but my hot take is that I would almost say you could skip speaking until you’re like N4/N3.
How much time do you have each day to dedicate to Japanese?
Increasing the surface area of your study (more Vocab/Grammar each day, even if you get low % in Reviews) would mean you could get to immerse yourself in native materials sooner.
I got to like N4-ish level, was able to barely read Yotsuba& and watch Crayon Shin Chan on Netflix, and from then on my pace improved greatly.
Seeing a Vocab usage in the wild is worth 3x the value of doing that same Vocab as 1 SRS review.
Speaking to me was basically just mimicry of what I was consuming.
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I love speaking. Out of the four language skills (speaking, writing, listening, reading), it is by far my favorite. to the point that, over the years, I’ve restructured how I learn foreign languages to add as much speaking practice as possible, and use it as a motivator to study other things (e.g. grammar, vocabulary, etc).
That being said, speaking is hard. It is the only real-time, output skill. So, over the years, this is how I’ve been approaching it:
- Adopting a beginner’s mindset: Speaking is hard and mistakes will happen all the time. I try and enjoy the chaos of saying the wrong thing over and over again, without punishing myself, since this is part of the process.
- Speaking from day one: Regardless of how little I know of a language, I like to practice speaking from the get go. If I don’t do that, I tend to get very shy and afraid of making mistakes. However, if I’m speaking from the beginning, I’ll be able to see the progress from no knowing how to say anything at all to being able to express something. That’s a fascinating experience.
- Shadowing: This is particularly useful in the beginning so I can improve on pronunciation/listening and acquire some set phrases early on. It also helps with getting used to producing the phonemes of the target language more easily. Then, when I start to consume content in the target language, I try and repeat the sentences as I’m hearing them.
- Getting an online private tutor: This is the highest leverage move. I absolute thrive in a private tutor setting, compared to group classes, becase of how much speaking I can practice in little time. I’ve been using italki for a few years and really like the service (it isn’t free, though), but any place where you can find other people to talk to (in-person or online) would have the same effect—as long as they are fluent/native in the target language. Language exchange groups can be helpful for that. I try and go for one 30-minute class per week focusing on free conversation.
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In my experience the best way to learn phrases and how to sound ‘natural’ is simply by immersing and slowly acquiring how people speak over a long period. It takes a huge amount of time though and you have to be ok with making lots of mistakes or not understanding many things in the beginning, its all part of learning a language I guess
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If I were you, I’d prioritise shadowing and something like Pimsleur where you get taught set phrases and have conversations using them.
If you can find some N5 content on YouTube, listen and shadow. Even if you don’t understand the meaning 100%, you’re working with grammar and vocab that you have most likely encountered so you’ll be able to practice using those points in spoken language.
I’m not sure if there are any free Pimsleur alternatives (time for Bunpro speaking mode) but it’s definitely useful to practice set phrases and how to respond to them. As your Japanese improves, you’ll be able to replace words in these phrases with your own vocab and find yourself expressing ideas more independently.
Edit: maybe even try reading BunPro’s N5 reading practice resources out loud to familiarise yourself with sentence structure.
Good luck!
I can recommend on YouTube: Akiko_Japanese_Conversations, Mochi Real Japanese and of course Japanese with Shun. They have tons of content in the N5 range. You will get a very good feeling for the language.
Hello!
I think I’m in a similar situation. Here is what I’m doing these days:
- listening - it’s important to train your ear so you will have an easier time recognizing the language as well as get used to the sound of it. I’m watching some comprehensible input videos so I get both vocabulary repetition + the listening part. Don’t forget to read along and repeat after the author: https://nihongo-jikan.com/ (you can look for a different source as well)
- writing - this one is hard because you will need to come up with your sencences by yourself. Here I’m using a penpal app to write short-middle letters and use ChatGPT to review what I’ve written.
As long as you’re doing those two as pre-conditions, you will have an easier time when speaking, because you’ll be more familiar with the correct sound of the language (the more listening and repeating you do) as well as you’ll be able to build sentences faster (the more writing you do).
Finally, you can pick a topic and practice some dialogs on that topic. A good few examples would be when you meet a new person or when you want to order something. Start from simple stuff and build your way up. Sometimes there are videos on YouTube for the very specific topics, that also works because you won’t need to come up with phrases yourself, you’ll just need to repeat and practice in front of a mirror.
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I usually practice around 2-4 hours a day. I just recently took a small break because I just finished N5 but ive still been doing 30-45 practices everyday. I am starting N4 next week.
Where do you find tutors that can teach an american?
What is Pimsleur?
I love her. She is awesome but I do get lost sometimes.
here is an important question: do you need to be able to speak/write in the near future?
if not, then your time is perhaps better spent on furthering your comprehension first. once you understand a language enough, you will be able to form your own sentence simply by “copying” sentences you have heard a thousand times before rather than having to think hard about constructing them based on rules.
admittedly, that is something that comes years down the line, but the general consensus is that immersion is the best way to learn, and in order to immerse early, you need the widest vocab possible.
you said you practice 2-4 hours a day, but only now finished the N5 material? I know everybody learns at their own pace, but that is quite slow. perhaps it’s because you spent too much time on getting the material perfect when that time could be spent on learning more material to just a reasonable degree instead. to give you an idea: learning 100 words to the point you get 90 of them right takes about the same time as learning 400 words and getting 300 of them right. that means if there are words you are struggling with, it’s better to just let them be and focus that energy and time on learning more words instead.
I’d also recommend not sticking to the N-level vocab. there is just too many words that have practically zero use in everyday conversations. there are better decks, like Kaishi 1.5k or one of the Core decks, that really focus on common words, rather than obscure terms you might need as a tourist or in a medical emergency.
It’s a series of audio lessons where they introduce you to phrases and appropriate responses, then create conversation-like scenarios where you respond to the speaker.
The lessons follow on from one another, so phrases you have learned in previous lessons can (and often must be) carried over to the next lesson.
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@jinsu2301 I was trying to complete the reviews everyday but now that I am in the thousands, I am just doing the learning. I am starting to see that keeping up with review’s can be tasking. As well as my 2-4 hours was between Bunpro, Wanikani, Busuu, and Duolingo.
@Joepan Thank you!
Hey! I’m actually around the same point as you. I recently reset, too, but one thing I’ve noticed that helps the most with forming sentences naturally (which seems to be your goal) is actually speaking with native speakers or other people who are learning Japanese.
There’s a niche community on a game called VRChat, which you can get on your phone or Steam. It lets you join different worlds and talk to people in real time. There are several worlds specifically for practicing Japanese, including one called the English-Japanese Language Exchange World. People will often approach you wanting to practice Japanese with you or learn English from you.
I’d also recommend continuing with Bunpro or trying something like Pimsleur, which is available on the App Store and is great for speaking practice.
I use VRChat myself and have made so many friends there, both native English speakers and people from all over the world who are learning languages. There’s also a large community of native Japanese speakers, and everyone I’ve met has been really nice.
I’d definitely recommend giving it a try! Actually speaking with people in real time has helped me a lot with forming sentences naturally, and I think it could really help you improve your speaking, too.
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italki.com is the standard recommendation. You can find Japanese tutors living in US time zones, but they usually charge more.
I did an online lesson package through GenkiJACS (https://www.genkijacs.com/). Nice if you want the most structured experience. Not necessarily better at teaching than italki tutors.
There are apps like VRChat, HelloTalk, and Tandem you can use to chat with Japanese people, but it’s going to completely depend on your personality whether you enjoy using them.
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This is unrelated to the topic at hand, but I had to just say that penguin in the desert is such an excellent phrase!
Try having vocal conversations with ChatGPT. You can practice your conversations, dictate to the AI exactly what you want to achieve and refine as much as you want, and there’s no embarrassment in screwing up or making lots of pauses as it’s not a person.
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In my personal experience the best thing has been to find a native Japanese speaker in person or failing that online via a Discord server or similar. It’s really fun chatting with someone who is also learning English, and you can really take your time and learn a lot from each other even if know very little and understand very little.
Just be prepared to understand very little and not be able to say much at all without many hundreds of hours of practice. I really didn’t enjoy speaking outside of the above mentioned context much at all until I reached around N3 level for this reason. But that’s just me.
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