Lacking Vocab, doing good in Grammar

Japanese
#1

I’m doing Bunpro (grammar only, level 38) + WaniKani (level 7) learning 3 grammar points a day and 25 lessons a day for WaniKani, but I still feel so behind in vocabulary. I don’t think I’m plateauing in either of them, but I’m wondering if this means I should introduce a third study source? I was thinking about Satori Reader or the Anki 1.5k Kaishi deck.

Any other way I should build up my vocabulary? Should I shelf new grammar for now? I want to take on some immersive content, but I know I’m lacking vocab at this point. I feel that I’m close to the point of learning words via context but not quite there yet. Any advice helps!

1 Like
#2

I wouldn’t recommend introducing a third SRS system, you’ll get fatigued. If you feel you need more vocab, you can always do the core 2k deck on here (master any double ups with WK). If you use bunpro to study grammar and vocab, you can select only grammar or only vocab to review by clicking the down arrow on your main review button. That way you can still keep them seperate if you wish.

I don’t use Satori Reader so IDK how good that is, but it does sound like its a good time to start immersing in some graded content, so you could also use that or free graded readers on tadoku. If you’re not confident, level 0 books should still be fairly approachable!

5 Likes
#3

Hi!

Just wanted to say that Satori Reader has been a real game changer for me. The instant lookup is very convenient, and the context and grammar explanations are excellent. It definitely helped things click more easily compared to the somewhat drier approach on Bunpro. Can’t recommend it enough !

That said, if you’re only lv 7 on WaniKani, I’d suggest going through at least the most common N5/N4 vocabulary here first. Order the deck by frequency, and feel free to skip anything that doesn’t seem relevant right now. You definitely don’t need to complete the entire decks.
This will give you a good foundation to build on and make everything easier, both here on Bunpro and elsewhere.

1 Like
#4

Hey there,
I have almost the same stats as you (only thing is i’m lvl 6 in WK) so i get what u feel i felt so behind in vocab too but I discovered that it wasnt the feeling of not knowing anything (and being in a “dead end”) that made me feel behind of everyone but the desire of wanting to know everything instantly (all the words and grammar), maybe you have the same feeling as me idk?

But really i think you should give it time, because yk, doubts are part of the journey, and you’re eventually gonna make it one day or another

You got this💪

#5

And also just noticed you do grammar only; you should try Bunpro vocab it helped me so much (just an advice here)

3 Likes
#6

Finding a source of whole sentences with voiceovers (or small stories) that you can read and then listen to should be a great time investment, probably better than adding more SRS to your daily load.

As an alternative to doing Bunpro vocab as SRS, you could try to add the whole N5 vocab sentence list to a cram session. Don’t mark yourself down on not knowing specific words, just enable/mouseover furigana and look up anything unknown as you go.
It might not be as good as a dedicated graded reader resource, especially anything with a human voiceover would be better for you than current Bunpro vocab TTS. But it’s right here, readily available for free and doesn’t create an SRS maintenance debt.

2 Likes
#7

Glad to see someone on my exact wavelength! I only just hit WK7 so we’re basically aligned :grin: I got rid of my Bunpro vocab deck when I started but recently I noticed it makes me review some vocab. It started as a few… now it’s like 30-60. I’m realizing it’s all because I synced the WK API and it’s grabbing from those. Really helpful but sometimes the description of the words is unclear (like 入れる for scoring a goal, or 角 being read as かど instead of what I was taught at this point which is かく. I have yet to disable these because it teaches me the word with better context, so I don’t mind the extra work.

#8

Paradoxically, for me, learning less vocabulary feels like learning more of it.

Intuition and power of inferring is the way to go, at least I think it is before you reach a certain level.

That includes:

  1. Reading/watching a bunch of easy content on high speeds to really get the feel and nuances of words you know, but know not well enough (basically any word at this level). Basically if there are no new words you want to to lowly getting to the speed you have in your stronger languages.
  2. Getting the feel of words’ roots.
    It’s another thing that gave me a real feeling like I started knowing a lot of words. You start connecting words by kanji where they really have logical connection, as well as looking at sound components in similar kanji.

So my approach at this point is doing everything you can imagine to learn things you already know really well, so you just create a space for new things to come very easily. I would guess I’m higher than N3 and it’s still true for me. But not like I’m doing it all the time, because at the end of the game, engagement, and concentration are what I believe makes progress.

And yes it’s definitely good to work with vocab if you feel you are lacking it, maybe not srs because it puts to much pressure. Regular notebook with self-made srs lookups every few days can really do the trick, especially to learn words that come up frequently.

Bu generally anything is fine if you are ready to give it up before you burn yourself out doing it, and switch to something new (in my opinion)

1 Like
#9

Oh ye, sentence mining is really good.

I set up it for my friend who has N5 grammar completed and ~250 word on Bunpro. The website perfect for that at that level is cijapanese. They have very good subs that match with asbplayer and there will be a lot of i+1 sentences so you can do card it’s sentence on the front and picture + audio on the back. I think it’s very comfortable if you are into that type of stuff. Although it’s difficult to setup, if you find the way it can become a good tool not only for Japanese but also for other languages when you need it (except that subs for every other language are rigged and it works cool only with books)

#10

I think a lot of that is due to using WaniKani as the primary source of vocab. I don’t think it’s really designed for that, it’s structured around Kanji memorization, and its vocab is mainly there to reinforce the characters. Which is why you have super weird situations where you learn something like 電子 before you learn 飲む.

5 Likes
#11

  1. I’m in a very similar situation. Did a core deck on Anki (which was helpful), then tried doing my own cards but they weren’t sticking for some reason. Now I use Bunpro (not bad but takes a lot longer) and the dictionary as I read.

  2. Do you know most the vocab used in the grammar points? If so, I’d say it’s fine to continue, but if you’re struggling I’d hold off on grammar for a bit.

  3. It doesn’t have a built in dictionary or flashcard system, but I highly recommend jgrpg-sakura! It has a lot of graded readers ranging from beginner to intermediate

1 Like
#12

Efficiency vs. fluency is a tough call. A few tips for efficiency, my favorite way to learn :slight_smile:

Tip for the below: Set Bunpro N5 Vocab => Reveal and Grade. WK will be your “strength” training, this is your “endurance” training!

  1. From above, add Katakana words - low overlap with WK, learn English loan word nuance
  2. Then hiragana - same reason, but these words are harder
  3. At WK level 10 or so, look up free Japanese graded readers and immerse a bit with books for babies.
  4. Efficiency means hitting WK level 15 or so as you finish N5, and 25 or so as you finish N4 grammar.
  5. At this point, can go back to learn N5/N4 vocab a bit AND/OR increase immersion level on some of those free books.

Roughly a 50 week program from learning hiragana to finish, but pretty much a guaranteed N4 JLPT pass provided you do some test prep too. Downside - no speaking included, so take a group class or get some tutoring if you want to add that in.

#13

I was doing anki before wk, and the kaishi 1.5k deck is amazing. I felt real fast gains from studying it, but it was also quite a slog. When I started going for 100+reviews a day for wk (lvl 10 now), I ended up dropping the anki, because wk felt more structured. Just trying out bunpro with wk and liking that. Still don’t think I have much time for the kaishi 1.5k, because I would spend like 50mins/day on the kaishi alone (15 new cards/day), and that would put my total studying to like 3hrs/day. As an adult with a child and employment, that just isn’t reasonable.

I sometimes wonder if skipping out on the kaishi was the best choice, because I really had impressive comprehension gains after it, but on the flipside, some of the forcefeeding of kanji that kaishi had was a real turnoff, and actually is what led me to start wk.

For your situation, I would recommend just increasing your wk studies to 50 or even 100, and you should cover more than enough vocab. Wk vocab overlaps significantly with the core decks and even kaishi to good degree, so I would stick to wk and not have to fuss about suspending cards from decks in anki that you are already studying in wk.

#14

if your goal in japanese is to be able to read/understand/speak real japanese: ignore the jlpt until n2 (preferably n1), learn basic grammar and like a core 1.5k words, and just start reading and listening to native material. anki is optional, but lookups arent. use yomitan. anything else is just delaying you. i would personally drop wanikani and just use something like rrtk/rtk/lazy rtk, it will save you much time. your number 1 goal for the majority of your below advanced time should be cramming as much vocab/kanji (alongside input). i would say anki is only worth it for vocab (kanji/pitch is always worth it imo), if you never or very rarely skip a day, read a lot alongside it, and set it to like below 85% fsrs + do it fast. if you use japanese subs, dont count that as listening practice (it isnt). i fell into that trap and my listening lagged behind. listening is just raw, subs makes it reading.

#15

when i have these typa words i usually use AI to like explain me w/ context you can try it too

1 Like
#16

It will always feel “right around the corner” but that corner is a circle. Just immerse and watch stuff to take a break from the boring rote memorization routine before you burn out.

1 Like
#17

If you are really wanting to start immersion Satori reader is a pretty good option. Since it’s stories with many episodes, it will tend to keep bringing up similar words and grammar so even if it’s a struggle at first it’ll get easier in later episodes. You can also sort the series by difficulty. It has instant lookup by clicking on the words, you can add them as srs, and the explanations are some of the best since they are all written by real fluent people. There’s also audio done by fluent Japanese speakers on all the stories.

#18

Lots of good thoughts here, but I’d second working on reading. I’d either pick a manga or the tadoku books. Something that requires you to see it in context and infer. I think learning vocab on something like Bunpro is great (that’s 90% of what I do), but seeing it in context (with grammar) will be really helpful.

#19

You could add a third resource [I like Japanese like a breeze]. But 38 vs 7 is the crux of the issue.
Grammar exists in sentences. sentences are made of words. So its much easier if your vocab is ahead of your Grammar.

I recommend trying vocab reading reviews. Once you’ve done a few, come back and check this list.
the difference between kaishi [and Jalab] and bunpro reading reviews are:

  1. another app to keep up with. Anki is a fav of many people [including me] but you already have 2. Doing all 3 is too much
  2. anki has pictures
  3. audio from anime. Sometimes characters are yelling, or there’s background noise which make it harder to understand
  4. written in HTML. there are lot’s of options. But as it is coded in HTML modifing is a bit “get gud” I read “HTML for dummies” 15 years ago, and brushed up on w3schools, but b{color: Magenta;} really benefits from coding knowledge
  5. read the example sentences. kaishi and Japanese like a breeze both use example sentences you can read. Bunpro teaches words out of order, so there are words in the example sentence you don’t know yet, and wanikani doesn’t have example sentences!
  6. bunpro has furigana on hover. in anki I have it off. You could put the furigana as a hint feild, or add a button… but its easier for me to memorize the readings than program it in
  7. anki is offline.
  8. csv import/export. like HTML, if you know what a csv is, it’s very convenient and powerful. And you can learn :slight_smile:
  9. custom study. powerful if you can code. Currently my custom study is “prop:due<-1 prop:ivl>=21” do you notice a theme?
1 Like
#20

I recommended Netflix with Japanese subs. Something you can watch with out understanding all of the words. your first show you will feel like you understand nothing. Can you watch Naucica even if the only word you hear is 姫さま and オウム? I could.

So far I’ve watched dungeon meishi, kotaru hitori gurashi, hajimete otsukai, ao no Exorcist, Spy family, Ghibli, amai amai to inazuma, somali to mori no kamisama, usagi drop [live action movie] and boku no inai machi.
also Manga!