N1 Vocab list is flawed

The reasons above are really good - from the JLPT not being Anglocentric to unguessable English loans even if you are an English native speaker (how we got カンニングする still boggles me). There are a lot of good reasons why the katakana words are where they are.

I wanted to offer one more point in favor of these items. Personally, I would never be able to guess which concepts Japanese uses loanwords for and which ones it doesn’t.

Two examples that came up for me on my learning journey: I would have assumed there was a common native Japanese word for bath towel, and I also would have assumed “alopecia” would use a Ioanword. Wrong on both counts. Sure, I understood タオル when I saw it, but the first time I said アロピーシャ the conversation came to a complete stop!

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If anyone is taking this website or their N1-N2 studies seriously, then they are likely a paid user for this service. (I’ll pay this compliment to the creators) Therefore, this paid service which has the sole purpose of teaching and/or supplementing Japanese vocabulary and grammar study should be optimized.

The fact that this conversation has devolved into one regarding カタカナ words being on the JLPT rather than about addressing the plethora of non-vocabulary “vocabulary words” found in this set is testament to the lack of seriousness in so many members’ study habits . Reading the responses on this thread has me wondering why so many people are okay with “well there are many words that are easy but…” line of thought. Either a statement regarding level sorting consideration or a revamp of the lists is an utter necessity.

I asked for the former, by the way, and did not receive an answer of any sort. “Do it yourself” is not a suggestion that I, as a working adult, am willing to take seriously.

I apologize for the tardiness of this appendage. However, I had much business to attend to.

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I wholeheartedly reject this assertion and I don’t think its necessary to resort to veiled insults about whether people are serious students or not.

Perhaps if your messaging had been a little more polite and you had been here to reply the thread would have stayed on topic.

I agree things can and should be optimised, especially in regards to particles etc being taught as words in the N1 list. However I take a bit of umbrage as to how you’ve conveyed yourself, so it’s hard to engage with the topic properly to begin with.

I don’t see the relationship here between having a job and spending 1 whole second clicking “mark as mastered” on words you dont think you need to learn.

All in all, your original message - mostly fair enough. But in order to receive meaningful feedback and help, you’ll find honey catches far more flies than vinegar.

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Yeah I officially lost all respect for you with that.

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Also why are we using ALT as an insult…?

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Sorry, I thought as a working adult you were too busy for this kind of childs play…?

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Not that I want to “devolve” this conversation again, but for the actual people around here, please don’t waste your precious “serious studying” time feeding the trolls :slight_smile:

I’d be happy to discuss more about this vocabulary issue in a new post, but this one would better be buried.

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Personally I’m fine with the loan words, as you’ll need then eventually anyway and they aren’t always guess-able. I’d rather any grammar terms be moved to whatever level actually has that grammar lesson. But overall, I do think some sort of editing is needed. If I’m engaging with simple level native material then all the most common words should probably be in N5, maybe N4. Maybe there’s a reason to cap N5 Vocab at 1K so as to not intimidate newbies, but you’re also going to see that vocab in Bunpro’s grammar lessons anyway. Unfortunately I sped through grammar and didn’t touch vocab so much; N3 ended up being largely unreadable sentences due to the massive amount of more complex or technically inclined vocab that i probably wouldn’t see until mid way through the N3 Vocab deck anyway. 😵‍💫

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Since i mistook the kanji composition of the word 完璧 with 完壁 it was always easy to read for me. xD

Hmm but it also shows up with 完壁 aswell… suspicious…

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それは is N1, though. That’s not それは as in それはペンです but それは as in… first example sentence on the page.

医者の一家のお家は、それは立派です

Translation

The doctor’s family home is absolutely magnificent.

Translation if what you assumed it was without reading it was

As for the doctor’s family home, as for that, it was magnificent

This actually takes us back to the other discussion which is - how many different それは items should there be? Just それ? それ、それは as in particle one and それは as in the other translation? それは as the particle should not be one at all, but それは the word should be?

It’s not as simple as one might think. Doesn’t mean there isn’t work to do though…

These aren’t the same benchmarks. The N5 deck doesn’t have the most common words, it has the most N5ish words that help you pass the N5 test.

I still 100% agree with what I assume is your sentiment though, which is, there should be a deck for more common words for people who aren’t studying specifically for JLPT or might be more conversation focused. Custom decks help, for sure, but even that isn’t necessarily the most efficient learning method.

Kanji really throws that standard language learning formula for a loop.

For example, Wanikani teaches you N1 kanji like 死 from the beginning because the word is fairly common and is using simple radicals. There are similar examples of “out of order” kanji all the way up through level 20 or so, after which things get a bit more programmatic. WK isn’t perfect either (一斤!?) but there’s something to be said about not teaching the numbers 1-10 all in level 1 because 四 六 and 五 (4-5 strokes) are a bit more challenging than 一 二 三 七 八 and 十 (1-3 strokes).

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To add onto this, N1 is much more picky about nuance/semantics/accuracy than N2 and below. So going back to basics and knowing the different nuances of “common” words that you wouldn’t have necessarily approached in earlier levels is necessary, right? At least this is what I understand about the test. N1 requires not just knowledge but depth.

ETA: which is not to say things shouldn’t or cant be refined, just that thats probably why terms like “soreha” appear in an N1 list (I think)

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‘それは" is N1 though’ is an insane cope from both of you. Re-explained nuances of previously learned and, more relevantly, EASY words (this can barely be considered a word btw) are not what an N1 vocab list should be composed of.
I’m at a loss for what the point is you are trying to make. The lists need a revamp or there should be an explanation for how the “vocab” makes each list. You agree with me. However, at the same time, you are trying to convince me (and more importantly yourselves) that “それは” is N1 vocab. :man_shrugging:

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I didnt even say that, I just explained why it might be added in the list, since that definition isnt usually taught at lower levels. I even agreed things needed to be changed.
Idk why you’re being rude and superior about it all.

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It’s really not that deep. It’s not “cope.” It’s a learning resource. There are flaws with every resource, but the Bunpro team really listens. They make changes constantly. There is no reason to complain (especially rudely). Imagine complaining about getting additional practice…

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That’s the thing. I don’t want nor need to practice words like けど (not a WORD) and それは (not a word). I am studying for the N1. I want a vocabulary list of words likely to show up on the N1, not slightly nuanced N5 words and phrases that obviously will not be tested.

And there are a considerable enough amount of these in the current N1 list to become bothersome which is what I have tried to bring to light.

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.not N1
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.not N1、not a vocabulary word, is an N3 grammar point
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.not N1, not a word
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. not N1, is an N3 grammar point

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