(N3+) Any tricks to learning "regarding", "as long as", "concerning", etc?

Bunpro
#1

I’m going crazy trying to memorize certain grammar points like “regarding”, “concerning”, “as long as”, “it doesn’t mean that”, etc., where each of these has like 4 or 5 ways to translate it into Japanese, and it’s not always obvious which one it is.
And the way Bunpro works, you’re given the English, which in these cases is vague. When I read it in a full Japanese sentence, it makes more sense, but it’s hard to go the other way around.

Does anyone have any tricks to remembering these points?

Examples:
“concerning”
について https://bunpro.jp/grammar_points/225
にとって https://bunpro.jp/grammar_points/247
にかかわる https://bunpro.jp/grammar_points/523
にかけては https://bunpro.jp/grammar_points/579
を巡って https://bunpro.jp/grammar_points/690

“as long as”
さえ〜ば https://bunpro.jp/grammar_points/264
からには https://bunpro.jp/grammar_points/401
限り https://bunpro.jp/grammar_points/544
以上 ② https://bunpro.jp/grammar_points/317
上は https://bunpro.jp/grammar_points/396

Also “regarding”, “should”, “depends / depending on”, “expected”, “quite”, “it doesn’t mean that”.
And I also searched on “even if” and “even though”… holy crap! There’s 13 grammar points for each of those!

よろしくお願いします！

5 Likes
#2

I’m still struggling with these too and make a good portion of ghost reviews. So these discussion are helpful and I think most come down to studying the context of the sentence for the right answer (and not using the keyword translations)

I shared this link before, I think it’s in the readings already but here is the summary:

1. Compound particles have two usages like particles and relative clauses.
2. に対して expresses targets of non-physical actions, emotions, and attitudes.
3. について and に関して express targets of thoughts and speech like “about.”
4. をめぐって expresses conflicts between two parties.
5. にかかわる expresses targets of relations.

Concerning/in regard to, here is another one: に対して

At least に対して has a specific non-physical actions. However, something like this really trips me up:

はぐらかさないで質問に対して答えてください。
Regarding the question, please answer it, without dodging.

I think を巡って might be the easiest since there is always the dispute of opinion/negotiation

Actually, I need to add にかけては, but look simple enough for “when it comes to” type of context

にかかわる seems to have alot of relative clause usage and probably explains express targets of relations. Most of the BP examples and the links were expressed this way

にとって I thought was easier to think “for”_____ instead of ‘concerning’ along with the judgement statement usually attached

Would like to hear a good answer here, I’m struggling with these too.

さえ〜ば、限り、上は、以上 seem very interchangeable but at least 以上 (literature mostly)and 上は (formal/rare/old fashioned).

からには I’m confusing with all the “since” grammar, like て以来 or 以上 :sob: and back to ので、から

3 Likes
#3

I agree, in principle, but there’s gotta be another way to approach this.
When I see を巡って, it’s easy to think “there’s a dispute about this”.
But when I see “about”, I think… is this a conversation topic… is there a dispute… is this physical… is this about emotions… uh… に対して？
(the difference between translating JPN --> ENG versus ENG --> JPN)

And even when I hit space bar to get the extra hints, those still throw me off sometimes.

And there’s so many grammar points like this, not just one or two.

I’m beginning to think I just need to spend a day just memorizing all the translations so that I can see “about” (as an example) and instantly think of the 5 possibilities.

1 Like
#4

からには is interesting because I learned that one as “now that”, which gives a different feel than “since”. Using the example sentences:

二十歳になるからには、ドライブしに行こう！
Since I will be turning 20, let’s go for a drive!
Now that I will be turning 20, let’s go for a drive!

インタビューをするからには、本音を聞き出したい。
Since we are doing an interview, I want to get their true opinion.
Now that we are doing an interview, I want to get their true opinion.

And I saw this one in a grade school classroom:
ここに来たからには、がんばろう！
Now that you’re here, let’s do our best! (my translation)

3 Likes
#5

Btw, I legit don’t know if these are good stats or not, so take my below advice with a grain of salt if the stats tell you that your current approach works better: http://prntscr.com/t9hlcm (I skip all points that I already feel I have a good grasp of, unless it’s in Tobira, the textbook I am finishing up now.)

I find that if I manage to assimilate a sentence fragment using each grammar point into my active recall, that helps greatly. I don’t know all those grammar points yet, and a few of them I just added today, so I haven’t gotten a feel for them yet. But here are some of my (very simple) fragments for the points that I do feel more comfortable with. Honestly, the parts in parentheses, I just added now so that my thoughts would make sense, but just thinking of the fragments gets me into the “mode” of each point, and that’s enough for me.

僕にとって。。。（難しい）
この本について。。。（話しましょうか）
｛愛・君｝さえいれば。。。（幸せだ）
本当である限り。。。
健康上（＝健康のために）・歴史上。。。

I gather a lot of these won’t make sense on their own to anyone else.

But my advice is if you vaguely (and not even necessarily consciously) remember the idea behind an example sentence containing the sentence fragment (that you do remember consciously), that makes it much easier imo.

I’m also getting to the point where I have to spend a lot of time disambiguating similar points. I use a similar approach, just with sentences that really highlight the difference between the two points: vaguely remember the idea behind the differences, and remember the sentence fragments.

(Additional tip: use the notes sections for disambiguation! Just writing it down is enough most of the time to give you enough fuel to run the above approach I suggested :D)

3 Likes
#6

This is really interesting! So you basically made a list of your favorite example fragments, ones that gave you a good feel for the meaning (something that “spoke to you”), and studied those as a way to reinforce the meaning. I’ll have to try this.

1 Like
#7

I hope it helps! I actually never explicitly made a list of these fragments, but the goal is ultimately to get these fragments to be very closely associated to the points in your mind, to where you can relay them at will, and each point has its fragment (or fragments). Identifying and writing out the sentence fragments may help with doing that! Let me know how it goes.

1 Like