N5 Vocab Deck thoughts

So, a few days ago I finally added all the items from the N5 deck into my review pool. I added them slowly and I do really think its a good deck, but I have a few things about it that I would like to bring up.

On page 1 there are a bunch of words that start with お and that is in theory fine, but most of those words are then repeated through out the deck just without the お. And frankly having the words with お in the deck is pointless. We all are learning japanese and we all know that お in front of it makes it polite. It is pointless and these are the words that I have found which are on page 1 that are later repeated in the deck:

Older brother, Older sister, Temple, Bento, New Year, Festival, Candy, Sake, Money, Rich Person, Bath.

I really think we could get rid of the お versions of all those words and not be hurt at all. An exception I would say is mother and father in the お part of page 1 because those also add a suffix so they actually have a reason to be a separate point.

A lot of the topics are repeated for barely any reason at all. When they could simply be combined into one point. The examples I have found that I think could benefit being combined are:

何 Page 4 one point is なん/prefix the other is なに/pronoun but they both mean the exact same thing.

年 Page 6 one point is とし/noun the other is ねん noun. I don’t think we need a repeat of this word just because it has two readings when you could just show both readings during a review. Also this topic isn’t given until Page 6 of the deck but it is first used in Page 3 of the deck in the 一年生 group. So if it is going to be taught alone, that should be done before other words use it.

引き出し Page 6 technically there isn’t anything wrong with this point in this deck. But as soon as you enter the N4 deck it is repeated but you add an お and use a different form of it. That just seems like a poor way to show this points multiple meanings.
https://jisho.org/word/引き出し

家 Page 6 いえ/うち both writings could be in one point

Some (not all just some) colours are also basically repeated. There will be one version of the colour then right after will be colourい to show it can be an adjective. I think everyone who can read already knows that colours can be adjective and the repeat is pointless. Especially since this is a grammar site and you already teach that grammar. Examples are:
白/白い Page 9
茶色/茶色い Page 10
赤/赤い Page 10
青/青い Page 11
黄色/黄色い Page 11
黒/黒い Page 11
I don’t think anything would be lost by removing 1 version or combining like colours.

Alright now on page 2 you give the vocab/phrase タバコを吸う, which I think is totally fine. But then you don’t give the vocab point 吸うuntil page 5. I think it would make sense to kind of group those together.

Points that use 茶 are really scattered. 茶 is first used in page 5 for 喫茶店 but 茶 isn’t given until page 10 (if you ignore the お version which I am). It would make sense to me if 茶(10), 喫茶店(5),
紅茶(9), and 茶碗(10) were all grouped together.

On page 8 点 doesn’t show its definition on the list or its on private page.

On page 8 we are given the vocab 横. Which I think is super good, you tell us what horizontal is. But you don’t include it’s sister word vertical. I think the addition of vertical should be added to this deck as it is also an N5 point.
https://jisho.org/word/縦

And that’s it. Think the decks really good, but I think it hasn’t been polished up before. And maybe there are reasons for things to be the way they are, I don’t know. Just my thoughts. Let me know if you guys think I’m just being an opinionated snob.

When I’m referring to pages I’m referring to the pages located Bunpro N5 [Vocab] - Japanese Grammar Explained | Bunpro here

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Are you referring to the grammar or the Vocab deck? I a am a little confused.

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Same. I think he means the vocabulary, despite the title, because otherwise what he said doesn’t make a great deal of sense.

Ah yes, the vocab deck. Sorry my brain is very small and I have a lot of opinions c:

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Thanks for the feedback! :bowing_man:

The vocab deck ordering is currently alphabetical which is what causes a fair few of the issues you listed. We do have plans to provide a Bunpro order by default for the decks that orders the vocab based on the order they are used in grammar sentences on the site with extra words scattered in for padding and where it makes the most sense.

Change to decks to both polish the content, establish a better order and make decks an overall better feature are slated for the coming months :+1:

Regarding your points about the words being combined, we took a fairly aggressive approach to splitting out words for two reasons. 1) We want to give as much practice as possible for each reading of the word and 2) we have plans to overhaul how furigana is handled on the site so that situations like 家 being written as いえ or うち allow a user to hide one furigana and not the other. Since currently we base it on the kanji, it leaves cases like 行く・行う where we can’t accurately hide just one, which is suboptimal.

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Yes I don’t expect anyone to cater to my particular wants or demands. I just figured I’d give my two cents because I know it is in beta and after going through it I thought it would be a good time to tell my thoughts.
That being said the honorific お words and the colours that have the adjective い I do think we could do without.

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I could be wrong, but I believe the difference between the colors, is that one is the noun form, or the concept of the color itself. The other is the adjective used to describe something.

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Yes that is, but my point is everyone here is smart enough to know that a colour can also be an adjective. And as this is a grammar site that is already covered via the grammar. It is almost a pointless addition that just looks like it was auto-grabbed from some online list. Including how it only has an い for some colours not all (I believe green and purple). Ultimately making them a waste of time.
Now that’s just my take on it, I’m not per say calling them worthless in total. I’m saying to me they are worthless and I don’t think they should build the site around me but the community as a whole. If you like those particular vocab additions I think that is 100% fine, and it isn’t an issue for anyone who doesn’t like them since vocab allows people to manually master any points they say they already know

That’s because only some colors have い adjectives variants, the rest are nouns.

My hot take on this subject is that decks based on word list/frequency data are always going to be a bit crap. At least it’s been my experience trying to use them in several languages.

They’re good if you’re using them to comb through a large list of vocab to plug “holes” in your vocabulary knowledge (where you discard 90% of the entries because you already know them and focus on the minority of words you’ve missed) but as a first pass for vocabulary acquisition they are, in my experience, absolutely inefficient and very frustrating to use.

The main issue is that the human brain is good at learning by making associations between objects and concepts, not just learning words in a vacuum completely disconnected from one another.

I went through a “5000k most common word” deck for Portuguese and it sort of worked ok, but I think that’s because my native language is French so I already knew easily 70% of the words because they were cognates, so it effectively worked as a “fill the gaps” solution as I mentioned above.

For Russian I tried a similar approach and gave up a few hundred words in because it was just too frustrating to learn random words in a (seemingly) random order. My retention rate was abysmal.

For Japanese I didn’t even try. I focus on n+1 comprehensible input and “mining” the content to create Anki cards. There are a bunch of Anki decks taking this approach too (I highly recommend the “Japanese Like A Breeze” deck for beginners).

Of course for bunpro it would be vastly more effort to create a deck implementing these constraints rather than just use a word frequency list ordered by JLPT level and throw the deck together semi-automatically, so I get why they took this approach.

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Also I just noticed
Castle is in N5 城 しろ
BUT it is also in N4
as お城 おしろ
What gives deck maker! -.-"