Name Enders

Japanese
#1

This topic came up in another thread so I thought I’d write up some stuff on my experience with name enders and when I think it’s appropriate to use each one. It would be good to hear other opinions on this too. I think it will also be good for me to consolidate my knowledge and experience using these terms.

さん
OK, so this is the first one we all learn. When we first start learning Japanese, we’re told that さん is the safest one to use in any given situation, which is generally true, and if you’re a beginner in Japanese and use さん in a situation whereby another name ender is more appropriate, you will almost always be forgiven.
I use this when talking to or about people who I don’t know, or people who are senior to me. There have been times when I have been really conflicted over whether or not to use it. For example, the manager of my local izakaya - he’s a couple of years older than me but we’ve been friends for a long time. I often conflict over whether to use ます and です with him, but that’s a topic for another thread. Eventually, I settled with using さん for him and it stuck.
Parents - beginners of Japanese are generally taught that when you are talking about your own parents, you should use 母はは and 父ちち, and when you’re talking about other people’s parents, you should use お母かあさん and お父とうさん. This is true in polite situations, but when I am talking to my friends about my own parents, 母はは and 父ちち seem very formal and it comes across as strange, so I would use お母かあさん and お父とうさん. When Japanese people talk to their parents, they would also use お母かあさん and お父とうさん to show respect, although they generally wouldn’t use ます and です (polite Japanese) whilst talking to them.

様さま
This is used for customers and for people who are inexplicably higher than you. I wouldn’t use it, even for the mayor of my town. I don’t work in an environment where I have customers, but if I did, I would use it to refer to them. Customers are generally known as お客様きゃくさま but if their name is known to the person whose customer they are, it would be their name, followed by 様さま.
In practice, as a Christian, I only ever use this name ender in conversation to refer to God (神様かみさま) and Jesus (イエス様さま).
This should also be used when addressing a letter to an individual, regardless of whether or not they are friends, family, or whatever. I would imagine that this is because they are a customer of the post office, but I don’t know that for sure.

ちゃん
This is a cute name ender that is generally used for girls. It is very casual so should definitely not be used for any kind of superior, and in many cases, shouldn’t be used for people socially lower than yourself, as it may be seen as impolite.
It is very much dependent on character - many girls simply don’t suit the ender ちゃん as it simply doesn’t go with their character. For example, there is one girl who works in my local izakaya (these are all izakaya stories… sorry), who is younger than me but is very outspoken and streetwise (is that the right word? haha). ちゃん would really not suit her, and I might even get told off if I used it for her :joy: But her colleague, who is much quieter and has a much more innocent demeanor, is known as ちゃん because it suits her character well. My advice for this would be to use さん until you really get to know someone, then start to use ちゃん as it seems more familiar.
As for using it with male friends, I know a few guys who use ちゃん as their nickname (generally by taking the first half of their real name, for example, Mr. Yamada would be やまちゃん). From my experience, this doesn’t generally imply anything about their character, it’s just a nickname that sticks.

君くん
This is similar to ちゃん, but only used for males - generally who have an innocent, boyish demeanor. I have never ever heard it used for a female. It is used for students and boys at a lower social standing.
I also have friends who use this as a part of their name. For example, my friend Ko has a short, one-syllable name that might be difficult to hear in certain, difficult-to-hear situations. Therefore, he is known as こうくん because it’s easier to hear in a noisy environment. He’s in his mid-20s now though, so the くん is starting to wear off.
Note: I have never ever seen this name ender spelt with the kanji, so stick to hiragana!

先生せんせい
We probably all know that this is used for teachers. In my school, this politeness is also extended to staff who aren’t teachers (secretary, school dinner chefs, etc.) since we are all working in the same environment and we wouldn’t want them to feel in any way inferior - we’re all one team.
It is also used for doctors, lawyers, etc. who are in a position where their many years of training are helping you. I call my doctor 先生 through respect of his many years of training and experience.
I often feel a little guilty for being called this, since I didn’t have to go through the absolutely horrendous teachers’ license exam that Japanese teachers have to go through. I feel that this really is a name ender that shows respect for many years of study and training.
It can also be used as it is, in place of a name.

陛下へいか
As far as I know, this is only used when talking to or about the Japanese Emperor and his immediate family. Literally, Your Highness or something to that effect.

先輩せんぱい
Whilst this is officially a name ender, I have never heard anyone use it as such in conversation. The only one time I have seen it used as a name ender is written on a poster in my school, that celebrates an Olympic athlete who graduated from my school years ago. He is all the students’ senpai, so his name is written as such.
This can also be used as it is. If the subject of the conversation is relevant to the fact that the listener is your senpai, then you can just call them 先輩せんぱい, but I honestly very rarely see this and it is generally just [Name]さん.

御中おんちゅう
This is used when addressing a letter or parcel to a company or department, and not an individual. It is never used in conversation.

殿どの
I’ve only ever seen this a couple of times. Generally, when you’re filling in your name on a form, the kanji 様さま will be pre-printed, but occasionally it is written as 殿どの. This comes across to me as pretty much the same level of politeness towards a customer. I have never heard it said out loud though… that would sound really strange :joy:

Nothing
In my experience, this is by far the most common in any casual situation. There isn’t much more to say than that. If there is no particularly appropriate level of politeness in a given casual situation, you don’t need a name ender.

So here endeth my essay for today. If you’ve stuck with me throughout and made it this far, then thank you. I would love to hear insights and experiences from others, particularly if they don’t match my experience and if they have any more knowledge they can share. Cheers!

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Skipping honorifics
#2

I’ve been wondering a bit about the social lines with 先生.
If you work in a school and you’re a teacher and you’re talking with other teachers, do you always call them 'x’先生 or if you know them on a more personal level do you sometimes omit it? In particular, if you hang out with them outside of work, do you still call them 'x’先生?
If you just call someone 先生 and omit their name, can that be considered rude?
If teachers refer to you among themselves as 'x’さん, or call you 'x’さん directly and not 'x’先生 is that a sign of disrespect to you?

#3

99% of the time we would use 先生. Remember that work life and personal life are totally separate entities in Japan, and although you can ‘let your hair down’ a bit when you are hanging out with other teachers, you would still maintain the same level of respect that you would in school. There are very few exceptions in my experience, whereby a teacher has such a good relationship with you outside school, that they would drop the 先生. But in school, they would go back to using it.

No. Just be careful if there are two or more teachers in the same room, since it won’t necessarily be clear to which one you’re talking.

It massively depends on the situation, but in most situations in a working environment, I would say yes. A couple of teachers who I have a good relationship with will drop the 先生 with me when we are not in front of students and just call me Matthew, which I don’t mind at all, but if they said さん, it would almost seem like an intentional effort not to say 先生, so that would come across to me as pretty rude.

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#4

My take on this is that when you’re talking to someone distant from you (stranger/boss/acquaintance), then you call your parents 父・母 because they’re outside your group 外, so you have to lower the status of your parents. (Your parents are within your group compared to the stranger.) But with your friends, your friends have crossed over into your group 内, so you call your parents お父さん・お母さん . (They’re in your group but your parents will always be higher status than you.)

The same is why, when talking directly to your boss, you say 田中さん, but when talking to someone outside your company, you refer to your boss as 田中 (without さん).

I think this works better with concentric circles, but basically like this:
me < friends < parents < boss < customer < stranger < Emperor < god :smile:

p.s. Great thread! :blush:

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#5

I’ve heard it used in some offices by “modern” bosses who want to treat their subordinates (men and women) with respect and so don’t want to use ちゃん because it sounds childish, but さん is raising them too high, and so they use くん with all their employees, both men and women. (That said, it’s usually said with “young” coworkers. I think they still refer to older coworkers as さん to show respect.)

#6

This is true, but people reading this should remember that 父 and 母 can only be used for your own family. For example, I would never refer to my best friend’s parents as 父 and 母, even when speaking to my boss.

Man, that would make me cringe so much :joy: I have never heard of that before.
Just my opinion, but I think that in the office, you should stick with さん.

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#7

I watched my partner play some of the Yakuza game series and he asked me why some characters called the protagonist with はん name ender, like 桐生きりゅうはん。

Too bad I’m still a beginner in Japanese and couldn’t find an answer online, unfortunately. Hope someone here can help clarify. Thanks in advance!

P/S: My partner is also starting to get annoyed everytime someone called the protagonist あにき and I thought that’s quite funny :laughing:

#8

はん Is as far as I’m aware just an Osaka dialect equivalent to さん.

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#9

Thank you! That makes sense now since one of the frequent locations in the game is based on Osaka’s Doutonbori. Really appreciate your reply! :smiley:

#10

Interestingly in the 3 years I was an ALT, I was never called sensei by other teachers, ever.

#11

たん and ちん are heard often enough to be worth a mention. Though I wouldn’t really recommend using them. Xd

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#12

I’ve heard it used as a name ender repeatedly in several dramas, not that that’s representative of real life at all. Don’t forget パイセン, maybe used once to address the title of name-パイセン but I’ve used it with friends as a name ender to get their attention (whether they are actually 先輩 or not) :slightly_smiling_face:

#13

Is it only used for male students? What do they call female students then? I heard that schools are shifting away from using kun in general towards san because it’s being associated with the lgbtq movement.

Media is misleading me haha, I guess people really aren’t just walking around calling each other senpai.

#14

Yes

Generally san or chan, but chan isn’t used as much.

I’ve never seen anything written about that. In my school it just depends on the teacher.

I have seen it, but it’s unusual. I have lots of student friends and they generally call their senpai ～さん

Yeah. I don’t watch dramas, but I’d guess that they were a hell of a lot more realistic in terms of this than anime :joy:

That’s pretty rude…

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#15

I mean, it seemed fairly common among the ALTs I knew at the time. It sort of makes sense too I’d have thought; for the vaast majority, we land in Japan with no qualifications and no experience, we have no teaching licence, no qualifications in education, nothing, and contractually, we are not actually teachers, we are assistants. This may be something particular to JET, i’m not sure.

Again, speaking of the majority here

#16

I known it’s a game, but the characters in animal crossing often use -kun with my name. I was a little surprised at first when they did that because I definitely have female checked in the options. I would have thought name enders were one of the reasons to even specify boy or girl. Is this just another one of those weird media only things?

#17

I’m pretty sure that くん equals man and ちゃん equals woman is just a convenient explanation based off how they tend to be used. In various different contexts I’ve seen old men use ちゃん for each other, older men use くん for younger women and vice versa older women use ちゃん for younger men.Obviously there’s also stuff like 兄ちゃん, 父ちゃん and 爺ちゃん as well and in the dictionary I have on my phone it just defines ちゃん as “suffix for familiar person”. So it’s possible there’s more meaning to which character chooses to call you what beyond gender.

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#18

Oh yeah, that makes sense. I’m gonna pay more attention to which ones tend to do it.

#19

There’s 氏 suffix for public figure.

I have only seen in on newspaper so I wonder if it’s spoken irl?

#20

くん・ちゃん – From my Japanese friends, I’ve always understood ちゃん to be used with someone “cute” or “child-like”, so it’s used with little kids, both boys and girls (think babies 赤ちゃん and kids under 6), and is typically used with girls through high school. くん carries more “boyish” traits – rough, aggressive, but not as strong as an adult – so it’s typically used with boys through high school. And traditionally, after you become an adult, then you are さん. When someone calls you ちゃん as an adult, it’s because you’re close enough that they can tease you without problems, and say that you remind them of cute/kid qualities, and that they feel close to you.
(My guess for being called くん as an adult is that they see you as a typical young adult – a learner and ready to take on the world, but not at the same level as the speaker.)

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