New Grammar! - March 24, 2020

UpdaTE! - March 3, 2020

New [て] grammar is here! This new batch dives deep into the て-form, covering a variety of conjugations, examples, and contexts.

Yo dawg, we heard you like て…

Verb[て] + B (Sequence) - Bunpro N5, Lesson 7

Adjective[て]・Noun[て] (Conjugation) - Bunpro N5, Lesson 9

Adjective[て] + B (Qualities・States) - Bunpro N5, Lesson 10

[て] + B (Reason・Cause) - Bunpro N4, Lesson 5

Verb[て]・Noun[て] + B (Means・Manner) - Bunpro N4, Lesson 9

Happy studying!

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Just when you think you have finished N5 and N4 more get added :sob:

Thanks for these updates though!

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This is a really slick way to illustrate how the て-form is understood. Bravo :clap:

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Honestly until I saw this sentence I didn’t even consider that using と to do this sounded weird.

According to HelloTalk, while you can use it that way using で is more natural.

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I wish I could like this multiple times.

Seriously, bravo to the Bunpro team! Would love to see more stuff like this on other grammar points.

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The ‘and’ English translations sounds a little stiff IMO :robot:. I would prefer this to ensure the causative implication if I had to translate this using ‘and’:

‘Mary returned to the USA and now I am sad’
‘The room is clean and now I can relax’

Even these below, ‘so I’ is my preference in place of ‘and’ for the same reasons (again just MO). The car accident one is an obvious causative so ‘and’ sounds natural.

Not asking BP to change it if everyone is happy considering it’s consolidated and simple so probably best as is for learning.

Paint-by-numbers grammar from En to Jp is great when it works but I find it tends to bottleneck eventually and would prefer the smoothest translation to whatever nuance is being used. Much like some grammar points could benefit from alternative Jp sentences rather than the English phrase for learning (of course the choice both is best) since sometimes English just gets in the way.

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This representation lets users naturally draw that conclusion for themselves, though.

There’s no inherent causal effect in the て-form itself, but it’s used to link clauses that are so obviously connected, that it’s often understood as causal regardless.

I think the dual translation presentation makes this more clear than simply selecting the single most-natural translation for each review.

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I agree with everything you just said :+1:

I’m just saying as a native English speaker that I wouldn’t express like they had it for a reason/cause form in English. As I read it again, it sounds more like the grammar choices a child would say when they use ‘and’ for causative conditions.

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I don’t like the dual translations. They make me associate | with the grammar points that have them because the | stands out. I don’t want to learn “| = て” but that’s the association this grammar point reinforces right now.

I don’t know if it would be better that way but maybe they could instead be separate entries among the things we can cycle through with the space key.

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@nekoyama, @Kai, and @s1212z Thank you all for your feedback. Until we can implement a more intuitive way to hide/show dual translations during your reviews, I have moved one translation to the “nuance” hint (orange). You will only see both translations if you have Always Show Nuance selected as your default hint display or you cycle the hints to “More.” The example sentences will remain unchanged. Cheers!

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Lovely.

It’s great that you are adding common grammar points again, rather than just grammar points from textbooks. I see the things you added in this update every day, so it’s great to review them a bit more formally.

Please keep going like this! :slight_smile:

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I think that option should be changed to set a minimum level to use, rather than the only level to use. So if someone starts Bunpro and wants to skip N5 and N4, they can set it to N3 and forget it. If they want to do the whole thing, leave it set on N5. Then Bunpro could always pick the lowest-level item that meets the minimum and hasn’t already been studied.

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Sure, or just make a Boolean value to allow lessons for lower levels.

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I think you’ve just implemented the best way to be honest.

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UpdaTE.2! - March 24, 2020

More [て] grammar! This new batch is our second expansion of the て-form, covering a variety of conjugations, contexts, and uses.

ないで has been split into two lessons (“Without doing ” and the casual request “(Please) do not ”).

ないで (Without doing) - Bunpro N4, Lesson 1

なくて (Conjugation) - Bunpro N4, Lesson 1

Verb[て] (Casual Request) - Bunpro 4, Lesson 3

Verb[ないで] (Casual Request) - Bunpro N4, Lesson 4

Verb[て] + B (Non-sequence) - Bunpro N4, Lesson 9

なくて (Examples) - Bunpro N4, Lesson 10

We hope that everyone is staying safe and well-informed.

Cheers!

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More て-form than you can shake a stick at.

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I just have a question: what’s an example of this?

The first sentence by itself can express the sequence “A then B,” but the second sentence can cancel the implied order of the first sentence and be understood as “B then A”

(“non-sequence” て-form)

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@Kai

The last example sentence of “non-sequence” て-form demonstrates this.

かみねさんは東京に行って京都に行った。京都に行ったのが先だったけど。
Kamine went to Tokyo and Kyoto. She went to Kyoto first though.

The sentence includes the above-mentioned note:
The て-form is heavily dependent on context. The first sentence by itself would express sequence A then B, but the second sentence cancels the implied order, and is understood as B then A instead.

Cheers!

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