で or just ので?

Japanese
#1

Hello, this is probably a rather silly question, but I’d be grateful for some help understanding this grammar point, in case I’m missing a nuance!
On the page for about using ~て for “reasons and causes” (Verb[て] + B - Japanese Grammar Explained | Bunpro), one of the examples given is:

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However, this doesn’t seem to follow the grammar point’s structure of [な] Adjective + で + Phrase, but rather a structure using [な] Adjective + な + ので + Phrase (as covered in the ので - Japanese Grammar Explained | Bunpro grammar point).
Is ので in fact a form of this use of て/で?

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#2

静か acts like a “noun” here. It’s not 静かな, it’s 静か + なので. So this is purely the ので grammar point. It’s not an “and” conjunction. なので acts like a “because”.

Hope this makes it clear. I have trouble like this sometimes too and after some more exposure I can tell you this is due to lack of, well, exposure and practice. Good luck.

Edit. Oh wait now I see what you’re confused about, this sentence comes straight from the て grammar explanation page… Weird.

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#3

If it’s actually just an example of the use of ので then, yes, that’s clear - phew! :sweat_smile:
Perhaps the example is on the wrong grammar point page then?
[Edit: crossed with your edit! :laughing:]

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#4

That would be my guess too. て・で and ので・なので are two different things, although similar in the “because” meaning. I’m pretty sure 静か with て would be used exactly like a normal noun, meaning 静かで. Maybe it’s worth to post this on the bug thread or tag an employee here to avoid further confusion.

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#5

I could be wrong but I think that although ので is classified as its own conjuctive particle it is in fact just の (nominalizer, which is to say a noun) and で (て form of だ) smashed together. As such, 静かなので would be a case of the usage of で in that lesson (as would any phrase using the conjuctive particle ので to the point that it is trivial) but I could be wrong and this could also be a lot of work to justify a simple error in the Bunpro explanation. If what I said is true and the sentence is intended to be there as it is then the fact what I said isn’t mentioned is probably an oversight. Or I am wrong about ので. Or that example sentence is in the wrong place. Only the Bunpro staff who worked on this explanation knows the truth 笑

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#6

“ので is the て-form of のだ. However, in modern Japanese it is used as a conjunction to indicate reason or cause.” -A dictionary of Basic Japanese Grammar

Remember that のだ is the explanation particle, you attach it to the end of an explanation, and て is the conjugation for saying “and so” or “because”. So ので, is the “because of this explanation this is the case” conjugation form of のだ. Hope that helps.

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#7

It does! I also just read basically the same thing here: Conjunctive Particle ので: For Expressing a Reason
Although part of me wishes this was some weird nominalization structure, I guess that would be + だ + の + で … and I should just be happy with the simple explanation! :grin:

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#8

@Jake apologies if you’re the wrong person to tag, but as suggested above, it seems like this may be a misplaced grammar example?

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#9

The sentence is just 静かな＋の＋で

In that grammar point, it would be Noun + で + phrase

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#10

Pedantically speaking these are essentially equivalent.

This is my own scheme of thinking about it:

  • 静か(noun) + な(attributive) + の(possessive/placeholder) + で (facilitative)

But the most simple way to think of it is just:

  • 静かな(na-adjective) + ので(causal conjunction)

There is something interesting here considering the historical inflections of だ as な and で both fall into that category.