Potential - Grammar Discussion

Hey and welcome on the community forums! :partying_face:

Like @eran said, る1 means ichidan verb (in some books called る verb or group 2 verbs), while る5 means godan verb with る ending (or う verb with る ending or group 1 verb with る ending).

Basically, ichidan verbs most often end with -いる (-iru) or -える (-eru) like 食べる、見る.
All other verbs ending with る are godan. (except する and くる)
Though there are some exceptions, like 帰る (but 変える is ichidan)、 切る (but 着る is ichidan)、いる which are godan verbs.

They differ in the way they are conjugated. In ichidan verbs in only る ending is dropped and a suffix is attached directly.

  • Negative form 食べない
  • Stem form 食べます
  • Dictionary form 食べる
  • Conditional form 食べれば
  • Volitional form 食べよう

In godan verbs, the last vowel is changed depending on conjugation and then suffix is added. All five consonants are used for various conjugations, あ、い、う、え、お。

  • vowel for negative form 帰ない
  • vowel for stem form 帰ます
  • vowel for dictionary form 帰
  • vowel for conditional form 帰
  • vowel for volitional form 帰

I hope it helps,
Cheers! :+1:

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It is 見つける -potential of ichidan verb-> 見つけられる -negative->見つけられない -negative て form-> 見つけられなくて -attach すみません to て form-> 見つけられなくてすみません
lit. I am not able to find (it) and I am sorry.

I would think it will be みつけられなくて (was unable to find)

And you are right :+1:

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Thank you for the help ^^

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Hello,

I don’t get this example:

もう一度言ってください。周りがうるさくて きこえません

Where does きこえません come from? I entered 聞けません and it was not happy

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‘Audible’ and ‘visible’ (聞こえる、見える) are special though regular potential form does exist for 聞く and 見る w/ a different nuance. TK has a pretty good write up:

http://www.guidetojapanese.org/potential.html

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If you read further up in this thread you’ll find an explanation. I just ran into the same issue.

I understand the reasoning behind including 聞こえる in the ‘potential’ grammar point. However, I do wish it was mentioned in the grammar summary. Because now I am finding out about this exception in the review and I only managed to find out what’s going on with this question because I saw this discussion. It’s not very intuitive or user-friendly. @mrnoone

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@Melanthe @s1212z @emucat

I have decided that this example will be replaced with normal one, and 聞こえる plus 見える deserve grammar point on their own!

And add additional information in warning section!

Thank you for informing us how unintuitive it was!

:bowing_man:

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In the example and question " 私の好きな映画が 見られたら いいね"

Why is it just 見れ or 見られ? Why not 見られる?
does it have to do with the grammar point that follows?

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It’s because of the conditional context ら for “it would be good if…”, ‘hope’ is just smoothing out the translation. They put the link for たら on this sentence, this will explain it best.

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Why does 見つけれなくて not work in 見つけられなくて すみませんでした。?
I see that 見つけれる would be the casual form, but since the question is looking for casual, there must be another reason for it.

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@CrisH
Hey :bowing_man:

みつけれなくて has been added to answers!

I have removed the “casual” hint. It was an error in this case. Also, by “casual” we usually mean the short form (not ます・です - long form).

By the way, remember that らless potential forms are considered by some speakers to not be grammatically correct, so be careful when using them.

Sorry for the inconvenience, :bowing_man:
Cheers!

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Ah, I see. Thanks :slightly_smiling_face:

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Please change the link for ’ Kanji Link’ to an anchor link :grinning:

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@Ambo100 Done! Thank you for drawing this to our attention. Cheers!

The language in this warning is confusing:

Great! However, remember that らless potential form is considered to be grammatical error by the number of Japanese speakers.

It took me a while to figure out that “らless” meant “the potential form without ら,” and not “ら (the less potential form).” Would highly recommend changing this!

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@petepolack Thank you for your report! I have updated the hint to read: “Great! However, remember that ら抜き言葉 (words that omit ら) is considered to be a grammatical error by a number of Japanese speakers. To avoid issues, it might be better to avoid it, especially in polite (です・ます) speech.” Cheers!

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I just ran into the exercise 私わたしの好すきな映画えいがが みられ たらいいね. It seems weird to me that an exercise for an N4 grammar point would use N3 grammar (たらいい).

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So potential form can’t be used for permission but it can be used to give permission?

@Johnathan-Weir I believe the confusion comes from a poor translation on my part. The subject of the sentence should be “I,” not “You.” Cheers!

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@Pushindawood

Ahh, that makes more sense.

Thanks :+1:

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