何しろ question

Japanese
#1

So I’m trying to get through the rest of the N2 grammar points before the jlpt next month, and I got around to the なにしろ point. I’m actually a bit familiar with it already since some games I’ve been playing have dialogue with it. What I was confused about was for that exact same reason, as in those games I’ll occasionally hear 何しろ and 何せ used in the same context. Is there a difference? I tried answering a review with 何せ and it was marked as wrong without even a hint or note attached as to why. If it isn’t different I’d just recommend that the team add it as a viable answer and explain it in the grammar point as well.

Thanks!

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#2

せよ is more formal/written sounding in all of its uses (as far as I know). しろ is more modern and sounds more casual and more likely to be found in speech. In a game it may come down to the way the character is presented or the context (military, authority figures, older strict posh men, etc). This should be bounced back with “This sounds a little too formal in this situation” or something far as I can see or even just accepted depending on the sentence.

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#3

I think you’re referring to this:

While she is asking about this instead:

何しろ (なにしろ) = At any rate; Anyhow, etc; versus 何せ (なにせ) which means the same, but I don’t know if there’s a difference in usage though. I know 何しろ, but I don’t know 何せ, so I can’t help here. Hopefully someone who knows the difference (if any) can chime in. Unless you do, and you just misread the question, of course.

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#4

I am just referring to the imperative form(s) of する in general. There is しろ and せよ with せい as 音便 of せよ, I believe. 何せ comes from 何せい・何せよ as far as I know. I believe the general rule about せよ sounding stern carries over into 何せ・何しろ, could be wrong about that but it matches the usage I have seen up to now.

I probably should have mentioned my workings in the first place, looking back at my comment now. Brainfart.

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#5

Hmm I think I get it. I tried searching it up a bit but all that came up from Hinative and yahoo was “they’re the same.” I could definitely see 何せ as being more stern tho! I guess it’s also confusing because I swear I’ve heard the same character say both 何せ and 何しろ before, but I might be misremembering. If I find the dialogue on YouTube or something I’ll update this thread.

My question then is why isn’t 何せ included in any grammar points on here? Even if it has a different meaning, I still think there should be a note section on the 何しろ grammar point.

Thank you both for the quick answers btw!

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#6

I think 何せ and 何せよ should both be mentioned as well since I would guess the prompt for the answer doesn’t differentiate further than suggesting the imperative form of する.

By the way, there are a lot of phrases with a similar meaning and structure such as どちらにせよ (in either case, opposed to in any case), いずれにせよ (whatever which way), いずれにしても (same but different), etc etc. I don’t think these are taught on Bunpro but if you keep an eye out you will notice a pattern of [question word] [する in some form] as a structure for this kind of phrase. I am guessing you already noticed this or perhaps have seen these kind of phrases without making the connection.

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