Replace "Streak" With "Days Studied" [Suggestion]

Bunpro
#17

For me, I like the streaks, but once in a while (maybe 4-5 days a year?) I either can’t or simply forget to do BunPro, despite doing it every single other day without having anything to remind me. (Which I’m glad for; needing reminders annoys me.) Losing the streaks was demotivating to the point that I have now hidden the streak counter with a CSS-modifying Firefox extension.

I feel like what would be of great benefit to the current system would be something to save your streak every once in a while. Like, when your streak would be lost, it’s saved once - and then there is no protection for the next 30 days while that saving grace regenerates. That would still promote forming a habit (even if you would want to abuse it you couldn’t miss more than 1 day per month), but mitigates the motivation loss when eventually you would lose your streak.

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#18

I mean, when you think about it there’s only a few groups of users that would get value from streaks. If you were to think of who uses the site:

  • Somebody who uses the site daily to its maximum potential. Will likely maintain a streak.
  • Somebody who uses the site most days, and on off-days will just do one grammar point so the streak doesn’t drop. Will likely maintain a streak.
  • Somebody who just studies weekdays. Will not maintain a streak.
  • Somebody who sporadically studies. Will not maintain a streak.

Would the people doing one question on a Saturday really lose interest in the site if they lost a streak? Would the people studying everyday lose interest in the site if they lost a streak? It seems they already have some sort of intrinsic motivation for coming here and it’s not the streak. Everyone else already knows they won’t maintain a streak and have no interest in it anyway.

If you’re looking at it from a gamification perspective then consider the fact that the streak is the only game element on the site that punishes you. Experience and levels are additive; you cannot lose them. Somebody who studies more will still have a higher number than somebody who doesn’t.

From personal experience I lost a 100-something day streak on Christmas Eve because I was having dinner with all the other lonely expats and my then-friend now-girlfriend and I stayed out past midnight drinking coffee and having a long talk. All of that is, at least to me, more important than Japanese. Now whenever I login and see my streak I just…don’t care? I don’t regret breaking it considering the circumstances. I’m sure I’ll break it again. Now it’s just this number that takes up space on my screen that occasionally resets to 0. I don’t hate it. It’s fun seeing a big number, but it just seems like there’s a better way to get a fun big number on the homepage.

For Anki I have a mod that has “daily average”, “days learned”, “longest streak”, and “current streak”. Days learned is a % value and I have much more interest in that than I do the others.

I dunno, it just seems like there’d be much more fun/interesting statistics to have/be competitive over that also don’t punish me for taking somebody I like out to coffee.

2 Likes
#19

I hit 100 and was very happy and was then shooting for 200 but went on vacation and lost my streak (even with vacation mode). I understand that’s probably a fair game for losing a streak but the end result is that I no longer have any motivation at all to try again. Why, because taking a true vacation without screens is more important to me.

So, that leaves me with thinking that the streak could possibly be reconsidered…

#20

Also in favour of having the option to get rid of the streak one way or the other. Just having it not displayed right on the dashboard would be nice, so it’s not constantly in your face.
Days studied total would be a nice alternative.

The existence of the streak, and moreso its prominent position, inherently implies that it’s important and you should care about it and you should feel bad if you lose it. (Regardless of how you actually feel about it.)
And while yes, maintaining a habit can be very benefitial to studying, there’s so many examples in this thread why that streak number isn’t necessarily indicative of how much someone learned.
Sure, a single review a day is better than none, but a streak of single review days will look the same as a streak of 50 daily reviews.
And what about those offline/sick/other-important-things days? Sure, you didn’t study on BunPro that day, but I think you shouldn’t be punished as hard as losing your reward for countless days due to things that are potentially out of your control.
If you personally don’t care about the streak, cool. But if it doesn’t or shouldn’t matter, why is it there?

I quite like the “reviews done per day” on the stats page instead. You can still see if you have a streak (no grey boxes at all), but even if you broke the streak you can see that most days are coloured differently, and it gives you an overview how much you studied as well, so 20 review days will look better than 1 review days. (Even though the current colour palette seems a bit counter intuitive to me haha)
If it was possible to also incoporate percentage of correct answers into that it’d be even more of an inscentive to actually concentrate during the session.

4 Likes
#21

To be honest, I table flipped and took a 2 month-ish pause from studying when I lost my 200 day streak… I like streaks, just not losing them.

Yes, same here, I responded also very much from my own perspective and experiences. Reading the comments though shows that there are people (obviously) who prefer the different alternatives to counting days. Having an option like @severian mentioned or @Megumin drafted would be nice, so that everyone can choose their own way of motivation.

On a different note, I recently came to the realization that I have the 400k xp badge after about 3+ years is of studying… There is also a 800k xp badge. I wonder how long it will take to get there. (Totally not a badge hunter)

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#22

This is avoidable - Other apps will let users accumulate a small number of “grace days” that are used up first when a streak is accidentally dropped. I’d be nice if bunpro did that too. I like the way Kanji Garden does it but Duolingo also has something similar.

2 Likes
#23

100% agree

#24

Basic question, but is there a good place to read up on streaks (outside of what’s in the FAQ)? I feel like it’s a basic concept, but I’m maybe missing something.

For example:

  • my understanding is that the “streak” is the number of consecutive days logged in and studying with bunpro, and this seems to be what you’re all discussing in the thread here
  • but on my dashboard I’ve got review activity (>100) for Feb 15,16,17, and have done 20 so far today, but the Study Streak box is showing 2.
  • on the Stats page it makes me feel like the term “streak” is maybe being used in a different context? For example I don’t understand “Breakdown by Streak” and how levels correlate with consecutive days studied, or Streak Average Over Time (the below makes no sense in my head?)

Screenshot 2022-02-18 at 09.28.31
Screenshot 2022-02-18 at 09.28.311016×372 16.4 KB

If there’s something I can read to understand it all better that’d be really helpful! :grinning:

1 Like
#25

My two cents, in defense of keeping streaks: For me, the streak is incredibly motivating. I will be the first to confess that I had days where I logged on just to do one single review just to avoid breaking the streak. However, like a friend of mine said: “Even if you did just that one review, that’s already a tiny learning win in my book.”

Plus, I do have to say it kind of makes me proud seeing it displayed that I have studied Japanese for every single day for over 300 days straight. It motivates me all the more to keep going and to not lose it.

Is the streak “harsh”? Yes. Are there “gentler” alternatives like days studied? Sure. Is it incredibly disheartening when you lose the streak? Absolutely. But what you do with that failure is still your decision, not the system’s. This may sound cruel, but if you give up learning Japanese entirely, all just because an integer on the internet went from some number to 0, you weren’t all that motivated in the first place. I’ve lost streaks in all manner of apps before (including Bunpro). The key is to work hard to restore and even exceed the lost streak, and keep on going. There is even a proverb for this in Japanese: 七転び八起き

To me, it’s just like real life: Good things (like a long streak) are very difficult and arduous to create, but very easily destroyed. It makes the task to hold on and keep developing those things all the more urgent and rewarding.

1 Like
#26

Doesn’t work when I can’t do a review to keep up the streak because there are no reviews for me to do.

1 Like
#27

New items studied also count towards the streak afaik, and if they don’t: Cram certainly does.

#28

image

Joke aside, yes, eventually you’ll get to the point where you cant build a streak. That in itself is a huge achievement. How do you feel about building streak by cramming or resetting grammar points if you want more reviews?

#29

I don’t care enough about the streak to do that for the streak, but I’ve reset grammar points for more reviews. I’ve considered adding vocabulary too now that it exists, but I’m finding that I don’t really want another vocabulary tool.

I’ve had the suspicion that the days where I lost my streak were ones where I either didn’t have a review at the normal time I use bunpro, or maybe only ghost reviews and they somehow didn’t count. The thing is I’m pretty sure I’m at least not dropping days as often as I’ve lost a streak on bunpro, because I have streaks of 800+ days elsewhere and it’s not like I have dedicated times every day for each tool. In this time I’ve even had week-long hospital stays where I did not drop my streak but I did drop it on random other days for no particular reason. So that’s why not having some kind of safety net feels bad for me, not because I consciously missed a day and feel like I should be allowed to, but because it keeps feeling like it wasn’t actually my fault (though of course I can’t tell for sure).

1 Like
#30

I’d love something more like the wanikani heatmap. It’s super satisfying to see everything displayed that way and try to one up myself to see if I can get a longer streak, but also know just how many hours and reviews I’ve done in general.

1 Like
#31

Everyone has such a unique experience with streaks that we’d never reach a satisfactory consensus. It’s not even clear what the “right” decision would be if the Bunpro staff were to make it on behalf of everyone.

I personally hate streak counters. I’m well enough motivated that I don’t derive use from it, but there’s always this small, completionist voice at the back of my head that urges me to do a couple reviews after midnight just in case. I’ve also debated breaking it intentionally, but I don’t want to skip a day of studying when I have the time for it. It’ll happen on its own anyway, as other important things come up in everyday life.

I’m very much in favor of “Days Studied”, personally, but reading through other people’s replies, it doesn’t fit everyone. At the very least, letting people hide the streak seems good - out of sight, out of mind.

The other suggestion of having “Largest Streak” is something I’ve also been thinking about. While you’d still be left at 0, it gives people a goal to achieve and surpass, which, if you don’t have any other, would be a reason to pick yourself up and start over. Everyone draws motivation from different sources. If you achieved a positive goal, it doesn’t matter what you used to “trick” your brain into doing the work that needs to get done.

What I do like on the dashboard is the Review Activity chart. That reinforces the thought that I’ve not only been doing well for the past month, but I’ve also surpassed a given daily baseline - be that at least 100 reviews, 50 reviews, or what have you. Given that I do big cram sessions I’d love to have one of those charts for it as well. It really emphasizes the work you’ve been putting in.

(As a side note, I also think that the colors for Reviews Done Per Day in the stats page are counterintuitive/reversed. I don’t see it as red=bad, but darker=more and lighter=less.)

3 Likes
#32

@michellespeering
We have heatmap feature implemented here:

@nekoyama @Mannelito @Mapletree @sally @anon11044561 @Ochamame @modboy @Devenu @testing @Unlocked @josh @severian @Megumin @Stormblessed @EdBunpro @conceptualshark @Silver_Skree @HotAirGun @rdennison7

I have been reading this topic with greart interest, seeing so many valuable opinions!

What do you think about both, “Streak” and “Days studies” implemented, and the users would choose whatever they like?
Maybe also achievements for those who have lost long streak, and another one for those who have rebuilt their lost streak?

15 Likes
#33

while i’m for replacing the streak with days studied, i think having both is worse than keeping the streak as is

1 Like
#34

Great to know!
I’d love to see the available option to have some of it on your homepage as well. It would also be nice if maybe the actual heatmap was condensed so that you don’t have to scroll left and right to see that whole year.

Thanks for all y’all do here! Bunpro is a lifesaver!

4 Likes
#35

And why is that? I’d love to hear the reason as is maybe something I’m missing out.

I’d love to have this, maybe something that can be toggled, like the daily/hour upcoming reviews.

7 Likes
#36

I like it simple. I’d prefer just the streak to be visible on the dashboard. If the streak is what motivates me to learn Japanese, then I should quit learning Japanese.

It would be cool to have a counter for total days studied as well as number of reviews studied in the stats page. Shows the mountain you made from the grains of sand you piled. This can be further compounded with stats from vocab cards or whatever other features that may be added in the future.

Edit: I think overall the net benefit of having a streak counter being visible on the dashboard rather than a days studied counter is higher. With a streak counter you can use a carrot to teach discipline and help users who want to become more proficient in Japanese. This in turn can cause an inadvertent effect where the carrot is meaningless as you built a routine. I can’t wait until I can one day stop using Bunpro for grammar as I’d already know the subject material offered in full as it seems to be the case for @nekoyama.

The days studied counter won’t produce that effect should it be an option in place of a streak on the dashboard. Motivation is fleeting but discipline lasts. But it is an interesting stat to keep track of. I’d be interested to see how a days studied counter could provide a bigger motivator in helping someone develop a routine. If a streak counter can motivate at least one person enough to develop a routine in which they can reliably continue progress until they’ve reached their goal, then I think that’s worth other users breaking a streak due to outside obligations.

Of course, there’s always finding another bit of data that you can display on the dashboard that can yield a similar or stronger effect, but I think the streak is simple and does the trick.

Imo, just adding three mulligan days a year would be the most optimal fix for it. Have it apply automatically should a user forget and display a banner letting the user know of the goof. This way you can still add the days studied stat, still have the streak, and appease the people who genuinely missed out because life happened.

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