This may have been mentioned before, but I really feel like the study streak should be replaced with “days studied”.
I know it can be cool and/or motivating seeing how many days in a row you’ve kept at studying, but I feel like much more harm is done than good (at least for some people). The obvious being it can discourage someone if they lose their streak, but I also feel like it can sometimes result in study sessions that are focused on maintaining the streak rather than to learn. I’ve had several times where I’ve done this. I throw a quick study session in at 23:55 where I’m sloppily rushing through reviews to make sure I keep my streak rather than taking the time to make sure I’m understanding each grammar point. I know this isn’t true for everyone, but to me it makes sense to have days studied instead to help reduce these two issues.
One of the reasons why I bring this up is because I see people every once in awhile post to Lost Streak asking to get their streak restored. I don’t have an issue with this, but the the thing is if a streak is restored then it’s not actually a streak, it’s just days studied. Something I really liked that @Megumin said in regards to losing a streak was:
…I know it’s semantics, but the work was not lost, it’s just the number in the box.
If a streak helps motivate a person, that’s great! However, if that number is lost and it was a big motivating factor to their learning, maybe keeping that number saved as days studied would be more beneficial.
There is the idea of giving the person the options of restarting their streak or switching it over to days studied, but I personally think removing the streak feature all together and replacing it with days studied would be better, especially for new learners.
I know there’s the possibility that the amount of days studied isn’t stored currently, so it’s possible for current users it’s not possible to get the amount of days studied. However, I really think that as the site grows it may be more beneficial to switch to days studied rather than keeping a streak.
Anyways, this is just my opinion on this feature. If it were me when I was first starting Japanese I would have been against this, but I’ve slowly realized over time how poorly streaks treat me.
I think that the streak is a personal challenge for myself to see how competent I can continue to make myself until all the grammar points have been maxed out, I don’t see it being harmful imo. If I lose my streak, I lose it. I won’t bug the bunpro gods for a temporary lease on my soul to restore it.
Also, the streaks have inadvertantly helped me build a habit on when to do the reviews, so twice a day at specific times, I am always doing reviews and lessons consistently. I believe the result of the habit being built from the carrot of the streak is more helpful than the streak itself which likely wouldn’t have resulted from a days studied stat on the dashboard in its place.
I’ll chip in with my thoughts, which may be a bit ham-handed, but I think this is something a lot of people overlook.
What is your motivation to study japanese?
No matter if you have a streak counter or days studied, those numbers will mean very little if you don’t solve the issue at hand, which is:
That situation will remain the same, regardless of what the number is called.
I did last minute reviews a lot before in order to maintain my streak, but in the end I realized that I was just inflating a number and not actually putting in any work or getting any results. Inevitably, I lost the streak, which sucked. However a streak doesnt mean anything and certainly doesnt translate into actual knowledge - it shouldnt be what causes you to stop studying.
Take a break, reevaluate motives - do you really want to study japanese, and why? - and see if there is a way to build a sustainable and productive habit to progress.
Now, if we discuss semantics and how the system works. A streak can be lost, implying there is some incentive to actually show up to study. Wouldnt the “days studied” basically remove that incentive so that you have no real reason to show up since you have nothing to lose?
As someone who likes the streaks, but also lost and restored mine, I think I actually would prefer Days Studied. The streak is motivating for me, sure. I like seeing the number go up. I’m hitting 1000 days this year, and I’ve only slipped up on my big streak that one time, so it doesn’t feel unearned to me. I like seeing some kind of proof that I’ve actually stuck to this and made concrete progress in my learning.
However, as a simple guy who knows nothing about numbers other than “bigger number on study website gives me joy”, a Days Studied counter would do the same thing. It would motivate me to keep going and make the number Bigger™. No, studying isn’t a numbers game, and I’ve seen the argument of it not being a video game etc multiple times. I agree, but it is nice having that physical marker there of “hey, look how much you’ve done! You’ve studied this much, just on this one website!”, and that is motivating to me more than anything else.
I’d hate to see the system be scrapped altogether though. Streak or Days Studied works for me, but I would be gutted not to have some kind of reminder and proof that I’ve been at this for however long.
And, on the issue of last minute reviews, it’s gonna happen no matter what. I’ve forced myself into a routine with Bunpro by now, but I used to be a chronic 23:50~ reviewer, and it always left me feeling a little lackluster in my efforts.
I can confirm that losing nearly a 200-days streak is an unpleasant experience.
I had an idea that one can “buy” slack-off days using their streak badges as a currency.
All streak badges could be achieved again if you lose your streak, and as a result, be accumulated, so you can spend your accumulated badges using some rate of exchange, e.g. one 30-day badge (or three of 10-day) recovers one streak day or something.
(Actually, it’s in a way similar to how Duolingo streak freeze works, but they’re using almost useless crystals as a currency.)
Sorry if it looks boastful to mention this idea again
I think it would be much easier to implement “Days Studied” than such complicated logic, but there are people who love the streak feature nevertheless.
I wonder if it’s possible to have it optional. You can choose to display streak or days studied, or maybe even nothing at all. Bit of an ask and I’m sure on a coding end it’s no trivial thing, however…
Throwing my hat into the pile, I’m also in favor of Days Studied, because I feel like that’s much more encouraging and healthy of a counter than trying to maintain a streak.
This is already possible in a way, but it more depends on your mindset about streaks and learning outcomes. For those who care about streaks, they will continue to be mindful of reviewing daily to maintain this. I definitely agree others @josh@Silver_Skree that days studied might result in more effective study sessions for many users. And for someone who doesn’t care, they will either study daily and the streak won’t matter, or they will miss a day and the streak won’t matter. Same thing goes for days studied.
From a Bunpro perspective, I have to imagine that both the “days studied” and “days in a row” streaks (or tally) are both important. I don’t think that Bunpro is a business that actively tries to monetize on their user base, but for all the users who aren’t lifetime users, having a system that gamifies the study process slightly (having streaks and badges) not only gives people something to log in for, but also makes it more likely that people will renew their subscriptions with Bunpro. The “days studied” idea would potentially do this as well, but lacks the urgency of maintaining something for days on end and is more likely to lead to disuse of the service than the “study streak.” Again, I don’t think this is a main concern of the Bunpro service, but it is a consideration, I’m sure.
That being said, for people with clear Japanese learning goals, I don’t think any of this matters (I’m talking about the intrinsically motivated), as @Mannelito is aptly alluding to. For others, gamifying learning is still netting positive results (possibly not the most effective as @josh alluded to
Just have an option in setting for people who don’t like the terminology, no point making a blanket change for everyone or have a setting to get rid of it. Based on the many threads we’ve had on this, there’s never been a consensus but thankfully this one isn’t filled with a few people getting oddly defensive/aggressive hahaha.
Love my streaks, solely for the fact that hitting 420 and 666 are my personal goals (only 168 days left for the second one!) I’d die happy if there was an option to freeze my streak at a certain amount and also freeze my user-level.
I had brought up this exact idea in one of the lost streak threads. This is the way Kitsun.io does it and I’m a fan. Here’s two thoughts for me to throw into the pile:
If the vacation mode button also froze the streak then that could be an alternative if you foresee not being able to do a review on a day. For me, I had a day where I went out into nature for a weekend and there was literally no internet connection so it would have been impossible to continue my streak without an offline review option.
A hybrid option where you can choose which option is more rewarding for yourself would be great, as long as you can still get the streak Badges. For Achievement addicts enthusiasts like me, even if I could choose the other option my unhealthy obsession enjoyment of the Badges would make me still try to get the streak.
‘studied’ people would get lost, if I studied one day, then only one week later I would come back to it, people kind lose their motivation to always come back to it in a discipline way.
I’m all for giving people the option, maybe upon account creation. I’m aware of people not being fans of the badges either, so maybe a “less gamified” version where you get pure stats, like days studied and stuff like that.
Also how about switching the information in the box when the streak is lost.
When the highest streak is lost, the information in the box becomes (very rough draft:)
This way, you don’t get to see the devastating 0, which is quite a bummer even if I’m not one for streaks.
Anyway, some people feel motivated about this mechanic, but we have to think also about the people that feel demotivated because of it, when it gets broken, and as seen above, it sometimes gives the wrong impression that all what you have done until now is lost, because that’s what 0 means.
Oh, I like this too. It’s similar to how Bookmeter handles it.
Mine isn’t the greatest example since I’m on my longest streak right now. Tells you your streak, how many days overall you’ve read, and your longest streak so far. You don’t get anything for streaks as far as me and my little 19 days know, but it is nice to be able to track my progress and efforts.
And not to nice myself, but I do have a rather nice total number right now.
I 100% agree with this; if someone decides to stop studying because they lose their streak then they should probably reevaluate why they’re studying in the first place. But this doesn’t change the fact that having a streak for motivation can cause someone to lose motivation and get discouraged if they lose that streak. I love learning Japanese, but whenever I’ve lost my personal streak of studying something, ironically, I go on a streak of not studying that certain thing. I feel like for me personally at least if I forget all about streaks it allows me to let myself be more motivated by my end goal with Japanese and I don’t get discouraged if I miss a day.
This is also why I think removing streaks and replacing it with “days studied” might be better. For those where streaks really help motivate them (and they aren’t affected when they lose their streak), I think them keeping their own streak would make more sense than having it implemented into Bunpro. I realize though that I’m focusing on this a lot from my own perspective and how streaks have affected me, so I don’t really know how effective streaks are for other people.
I’m going to be honest, it’s really hard to respond because it’s impossible to speak for everyone. We’re all different in how we learn and motivate ourselves. For some, maybe “days studied” won’t motivate them to keep studying, but I think at least having “days studied” there isn’t that possibility of them losing motivation because that number dropped to 0. If their incentive to come to Bunpro and study was to maintain their streak, if at any time they lose their streak then some people are likely going to quit (or take a break). To me it makes more sense for someone to quit or pause because they’ve lost motivation to learn Japanese, not because they’ve lost their streak. I also think it’s healthier for someone to realize they’ve lost motivation and to stop, vs they’ve lost motivation but they’re still going because they want to keep their streak.
I think a streak can have both positive and negative effects, but “days studied” can’t negatively affect someone the way a streak can.
I think having an option is a good idea as well, however the problem still exists that people can get discouraged from losing their streak. I guess it comes down to, if there were no streaks would that discourage more people than those who get discouraged from losing their streak? It’s hard to know. And I realize more now that it’d be pretty difficult to implement the change to “days studied” because that’d essentially be removing everyone’s streaks and I feel like that’d be unfair to those who worked hard on their streaks.
This isn’t true for everyone, but I can understand where you’re coming from. I guess I’m also kind of pushing how my motivation works onto others, because I feel like motivation for learning anything should come from the desire to learn it - but I do understand how streaks are an additional motivator. I also know that there are times when having a streak can be unhealthy though, so that’s what I’m thinking about mainly.
Yeah this is what I was thinking somewhat, having a total days studied box, and then a smaller streak box - and having streak be option. But like you said this is what I’m really thinking about:
This is my main focus for bringing this topic up because ultimately there are people out there where their motivation can be affected by losing their streak.
Personally, I think having “days studied” for new people would be the best way to go about it. This way people who enjoy having the streak feature would still have it. For new people I don’t think it would really change much. Anyways, this is just my opinion on it and how streaks have affected me. Thank you everyone for taking some time to read and pitch in your views on the topic!
I don’t think losing a streak hurting someone’s motivation is necessarily indicative of someone having the wrong priorities. Real motivation (the kind of stuff that caused the person to start learning Japanese in the first place) will have high and low points, and seeing a number go up can help provide an extra boost to get you through the times of low motivation.
I know I personally lapsed a day and lost a 250 day WK streak a few months ago, and my studying basically completely petered off because of it. Then, a few weeks ago, I had a surge of motivation and started studying again. From now on I’m trying to ignore whatever the streak says and just focus on studying, but the higher the number gets, the harder that can become.
I’m personally very supportive of this proposed change (whether optional as others have suggested or not). While there would still be an incentive to study every day to make the number go up, the penalty of missing a day due to unfortunate timing or some trip or event or whatever would be significantly lower.
For me, I like the streaks, but once in a while (maybe 4-5 days a year?) I either can’t or simply forget to do BunPro, despite doing it every single other day without having anything to remind me. (Which I’m glad for; needing reminders annoys me.) Losing the streaks was demotivating to the point that I have now hidden the streak counter with a CSS-modifying Firefox extension.
I feel like what would be of great benefit to the current system would be something to save your streak every once in a while. Like, when your streak would be lost, it’s saved once - and then there is no protection for the next 30 days while that saving grace regenerates. That would still promote forming a habit (even if you would want to abuse it you couldn’t miss more than 1 day per month), but mitigates the motivation loss when eventually you would lose your streak.
I mean, when you think about it there’s only a few groups of users that would get value from streaks. If you were to think of who uses the site:
Somebody who uses the site daily to its maximum potential. Will likely maintain a streak.
Somebody who uses the site most days, and on off-days will just do one grammar point so the streak doesn’t drop. Will likely maintain a streak.
Somebody who just studies weekdays. Will not maintain a streak.
Somebody who sporadically studies. Will not maintain a streak.
Would the people doing one question on a Saturday really lose interest in the site if they lost a streak? Would the people studying everyday lose interest in the site if they lost a streak? It seems they already have some sort of intrinsic motivation for coming here and it’s not the streak. Everyone else already knows they won’t maintain a streak and have no interest in it anyway.
If you’re looking at it from a gamification perspective then consider the fact that the streak is the only game element on the site that punishes you. Experience and levels are additive; you cannot lose them. Somebody who studies more will still have a higher number than somebody who doesn’t.
From personal experience I lost a 100-something day streak on Christmas Eve because I was having dinner with all the other lonely expats and my then-friend now-girlfriend and I stayed out past midnight drinking coffee and having a long talk. All of that is, at least to me, more important than Japanese. Now whenever I login and see my streak I just…don’t care? I don’t regret breaking it considering the circumstances. I’m sure I’ll break it again. Now it’s just this number that takes up space on my screen that occasionally resets to 0. I don’t hate it. It’s fun seeing a big number, but it just seems like there’s a better way to get a fun big number on the homepage.
For Anki I have a mod that has “daily average”, “days learned”, “longest streak”, and “current streak”. Days learned is a % value and I have much more interest in that than I do the others.
I dunno, it just seems like there’d be much more fun/interesting statistics to have/be competitive over that also don’t punish me for taking somebody I like out to coffee.
I hit 100 and was very happy and was then shooting for 200 but went on vacation and lost my streak (even with vacation mode). I understand that’s probably a fair game for losing a streak but the end result is that I no longer have any motivation at all to try again. Why, because taking a true vacation without screens is more important to me.
So, that leaves me with thinking that the streak could possibly be reconsidered…
Also in favour of having the option to get rid of the streak one way or the other. Just having it not displayed right on the dashboard would be nice, so it’s not constantly in your face.
Days studied total would be a nice alternative.
The existence of the streak, and moreso its prominent position, inherently implies that it’s important and you should care about it and you should feel bad if you lose it. (Regardless of how you actually feel about it.)
And while yes, maintaining a habit can be very benefitial to studying, there’s so many examples in this thread why that streak number isn’t necessarily indicative of how much someone learned.
Sure, a single review a day is better than none, but a streak of single review days will look the same as a streak of 50 daily reviews.
And what about those offline/sick/other-important-things days? Sure, you didn’t study on BunPro that day, but I think you shouldn’t be punished as hard as losing your reward for countless days due to things that are potentially out of your control.
If you personally don’t care about the streak, cool. But if it doesn’t or shouldn’t matter, why is it there?
I quite like the “reviews done per day” on the stats page instead. You can still see if you have a streak (no grey boxes at all), but even if you broke the streak you can see that most days are coloured differently, and it gives you an overview how much you studied as well, so 20 review days will look better than 1 review days. (Even though the current colour palette seems a bit counter intuitive to me haha)
If it was possible to also incoporate percentage of correct answers into that it’d be even more of an inscentive to actually concentrate during the session.
