Usage of 分かったこと

Japanese
#1

Sup everyone, question on the usage of using 分かったこと in this context.

“宮崎監督について分かったことを” 話しましょう。

I was sitting here for like 5 minutes trying to figure out the general meaning and kept getting stuck with わかったこと thinking it was along the lines of “What I understood of Miyazaki”

I eventually tossed it into a translate and it spit back out “What I learned about Miyazaki”
I even checked my dictionary for other meanings that may have been obscure or something. Anyway, why would one use 分かったこと instead of 学んだこと or even 覚えたこと？

1 Like
#2

AFAIK, “manabu” often implies formalised learning such as taking lessons.
“oboeru” implies something you learn by heart like learning Japanese or memorising vocabulary.
I might be off on those though.
“wakaru” on the other hand can be used for something you discovered through an experience/ independent thought, I think.

Without seeing the other translation I guess I would have thought of it as “what I came to understand/know about Miyazaki” which to me like implies not a formal learning situation but maybe what you picked up about him through his work and reading about him. Basically you synthesised the knowledge yourself through various activities, rather than learning it as a lesson or memorising information.
Ofc it doesnt say wakaru you ni natta but I guess thats just one of the ways I conceptualise wakaru in my head.

Also sorry for writing all in romaji, I am lazy about switching keyboards.

3 Likes
#3

You probably would be less lost if the translate said “Talk about what you know of Miyazaki”
分かる means know.
I don’t know “わからない” Oh, now I get it “あっわかった”.
Please be careful. OK “気を付けて” “分かった”
The first time genki lead me astray was telling me わかる means understood instead of know.
If I want to say understand I now say 聞こえる can hear
Hope that helps

5 Likes
#4

Ahh, that makes a lot of sense. but also what does this relegate 知る? Are they both in the same vein then?

Aさん：宮崎監督を知りますか？
Bさん：分かりますよ。

Kinda like that then?

Also,

Yea, ended up asking an unrelated teacher and yea, because in context of the book its supposed to be after you read about Miyazaki. So it was supposed to be(according to him) What do you NOW know/understand about Miyazaki.

Ill be asking my formal Teacher later today when I meet her and we go over all this as well since she is a licensed JSL teacher. She explains things pretty well(Albeit all in Japanese so it really pushes me too)。But helped contextualize it, thanks yall.

#5

The difference between shiru and wakaru is also something I don’t really get tbh haha… and then there is kokoroeru… and a bunch of other words too… I hope someone wise can tell use

FTR wakaru means both understand and know

#6

This is typically a case where you must detach from your own language and trust experience to refine it IMO, it gets obvious with a little time.

If I had to translate (I’d rather not :slight_smile: ) I’d say 知る would be to have a knowledge and 分かる to get a knowledge which is why it could be as much “understand” as “know” or even maybe “learn” depending on context, I don’t think the Genki translation is problematic it is just simplistic as any translation would be so it is a good start anyway.

It isn’t less confusing in English actually, for example there is a use that would be if someone tells you something that is obvious to you, you could answer 分かってるよ！and this could be in English “I get that!” as much as “I know that!”.

I think it would be better not to stress too much about it if you have an imprecise understanding, you have the idea figured already and it will just get refined naturally by context.
Trying to refine it by translation is shooting yrouself in the foot in my opinion. I think one of most important things in language learning is to try to think in the language and get away from translation. Many things don’t translate at all from japanese and it isn’t a bad thing is as it can actually force you to think directly in the target language.

3 Likes
#7

I dont know how to explain too well outside of explaining circumstances to use 知る

“Do you know Metallica?”
Metallica知ってる？
“I dont know (them)”
知らない

You wouldnt use 分かる here (most of the time, the exception to this is kinda hard for me to explain and not normally applicable).

Its more for understanding concepts, instructions, etc and 知る is more like to be aware of or familiar with something.

For 心得る = to understand something so well you naturally behave in accordance with it. Yo8 dont really use this in normal speech

3 Likes
#8

Interesting question, let me take a stab too.

分かった

This is what you “got” after a small classroom chat / a small overview article about Miyazaki.
Some simple everyday bits and pieces of knowledge. No pressure.

学んだ

This one is more if you’ve been “studying” Miyadzaki techniques in depth at like art university.

覚えた

This can be one of two things. Either specific facts and dates specifically “memorized” for a pub quiz or something. Or some kind of feeling/impression like 「感心を覚えた」.

知った

If you realized or “experienced” something for the first time, you could say 「初めて知った」. But「知ったことではない」has a very different meaning, which makes「知ったこと」a potential shortening of that, and I’d rather avoid that misunderstanding :sweat_smile:

宮崎監督を知りますか？

To me that sounds close to “do you know him in person”. Like 「宮崎監督とお知り合いですか」.
Progressive 「知っていますか」is better for “do you know about”. I think you can say 「宮崎監督って分かる？」in casual speech though.

#9

I generally dont word for word translate things and mostly just try to get a general feel, but sometimes words in a weird meaning just need a quick translate so I can better conceptualize them. Ill toss things into translate as well if Im looking to get a general meaning of what I want to say as Im talking to myself. If something sounds wrong to me, Ill toss it in and see what it kinda spits out. So long as its in the ball park of my meaning Im pretty happy.

This seems to be pretty close to what my fellow teacher said when I asked him. Its that like "better understanding now that youve done something with the material. An assumption from the book that you knew nothing, and now have gained some knowledge and can discuss it.
Wasnt able to speak to my teacher about it in length today in part because we got bogged down with my understanding on an article about IBS Cells which got convoluted since it uses grammer in a way not yet taught in other books so I was struggling the entire time with that one.

Yea, sometimes those single word translations and simple example sentence can shoot you in the foot. Even around Japanese all day Ive only heard it in situations where it would more or less mean “I got it.” or “I understood what those instructions are” so just something else to think about as I go along.

The other issue sometimes here is “こと” and “の”. Conceptually I understand them but sometimes the verb choice makes me pause when it doesnt seem to fit within my understanding of word so then I gotta track things down. Alas, its all the fun

1 Like
#10

Unrelated to your question, but IBS cells sounds really interesting. Would you mind DMing me the article if you’re able to? Curious how it’s discussed in Japanese.

#11

IMG_20260122_081807
IMG_20260122_0818071920×2560 327 KB

So it’s not like an indepth article, its just from the Quartet 1 book. So nothing difficult at the end of the day.

I’ll send it for everyone because why not. I’ll even send the questions for the after reading too lol.
Try to ignore my highlights and scribbles.

IMG_20260122_082235
IMG_20260122_0822351920×1440 62.4 KB

3 Likes
#12

But things I struggled with in this particular reading segment.

anything that is highlighted in blue didnt make sense to me grammatically. I dont believe Genki taught this but using the Passive form as a method of saying “people think or say this thing.” So without the proper clues while I kinda assumed but I wasnt sure if it was general people or maybe the person we are reading about. With like “because of the overarching subject of this man, he takes an unspoken particle at all times. We are always talking about him when the subject isnt clear” type shit.

Then other general things like a severe or deadly illness, is considered a 難しい病気 which again, I understood but with my English thinking mind its like, well what type of illness is a difficult/busy illness?

Other than that it uses a fair amount of descriptions which slows me down in general as I put the image together.

1 Like
#13

For this point I think it’s good to think of it directly as “it is said that” or “it is thought that” which is also the passive expression we use in English

3 Likes
#14

Popping in to add another two cents - I see that someone’s already given the example of asking

「○○」知りますか？ (do you know “○○”?)

which I think it very helpful for understanding 知る. A very common exchange you could have is
「○○」知りますか？
いい、知りません。 or いいえ、聞いたことはありません。

In contrast, if one of my students is confused during a class, the most common thing I’ll hear from them (other than ムズ, that is) is 「わからへん」 - or, in less 関西弁 terms, 「わからない」。

If I’m asking my students if they understand an explanation, I use 分かる - if I’m asking if they know a certain manga, I use 知る. If a teacher is explaining something to me and I have the lightbulb moment, it’s 分かった. If a teacher tells me a new fact and I’m surprised, it’s えええ、知らなかった！

To put it in one (English) word, the difference is between “knowing” and “understanding,” like some other folks have said. There’s definitely a learning curve of hearing it used natively though, and I still have times myself where I’m not sure if it’s better to use 分かる or 知る with students and coworkers.

But in the case of your original question, I honestly think that your initial thought of “What I understood about Miyazaki” is pretty decent - changing it to “learned” in English isn’t really because 分かる means “learn,” but more to reflect that it’s new information that you have come to understand, presumably through a reading or similar source.

Sorry if this is repeating info, just figured I’d toss another answer in the ring. :sweat_smile:

Seconding!

1 Like
#15

Yea I hear this all the time as well. I always interpreted as like a “oh I understand it now”(I get it) and that "I dont understand at all.(I dont get it) I hear from mine pretty often.
あああわかったよ！できます！ or the ぜんぜんわか~ない~halp me halp me.

So seeing it used in this, to me, new way was so odd. But I can kinda understand how its being used. Its odd to me now but Im sure itll make more sense later. One of this things that linguistically makes perfect sense in japanese but because im a filthy commoner its a bit odd.

#16

Yep, the all-familiar 全然わからん。But maybe thinking about the kids having that “Ooooh I get it!” moment would help - like, what did you “get” about Miyazaki while reading?

It’s definitely also one of those things that’s gonna feel more comfortable over time, though.

#17

This construction even earned “JLPT grammar” treatment because it can be confusing: とかんがえられている (JLPT N4) | Bunpro

Yeah to me this expression sounds a bit odd too. I would be tempted to think it’s simplified 「やさしい日本語」, but it seems to be used by grown-up websites ( nikkei ), and is listed as one of dictionary definitions of 難しい:

解決するのが困難である。「―・い事件」「―・い注文」「―・い病気」⇔易しい。

#18

Oh snap, I wasnt aware it was a whole grammer point. I gotta renew my sub because with the holidays I forgot, and since I live in Japan and having a credit card is nigh impossible as a filthy 外人 I gotta jump through hoops. Either way, thats neat. Thank Bunpro team and Casual for pointing it out

1 Like