Using chatGPT-4o for N5-N4 writing practice/getting over my beginner output block

Japanese
#1

I had a look through the forum and found a few mentions of chatGPT but no recent chats so thought I’d share how I’ve been using it, and see if anyone has additional ideas or things I could try to get more out of the tool :slight_smile:

Disclaimer: I know chatGPT’s Japanese is probably not perfect, but my main aim is to get more comfortable with output and worry about correcting any nuance mistakes later

How I use it: [this is all on the current free -4o version]

  1. In English, I’ve given it some background on my current skills level and what I need from it.
  2. I try to write about everyday topics, first in English then the same again in Japanese (on my laptop via the Hiragana keyboard). I feed both into chatGPT so it can correct me based on what I want to be saying in Japanese and reduce the room for misinterpretation/errors. I’m aiming to only write in Japanese when I get more comfortable but I’m not there just yet.
  3. I’ve tweaked it to output the Japanese correction of my written text, as well as how a native speaker would say the same things I’m trying to express. It also gives me a breakdown of the grammar and vocab it has corrected for me (first in English, but I’ve now asked it to correct me in Japanese for extra practice).

Fun things I’ve also tried:

  • I’ve asked it to grade my writing on the CEFR and JLPT scales to help me place myself
  • I’ve asked it to tell me what my biggest weaknesses are and what I should focus on improving next
  • I’ve asked it to give me some writing prompts when I didn’t feel inspired

Overall impression:
Genuinely really good. From what I can tell the corrections are legit, and it clearly highlights when a word or grammar point I used isn’t suitable due to the sentence context or the topic.
What I’ve loved most about it is that it has helped me get over my output block. The instant feedback loop is really great as I can immediately review my writing and mistakes while they’re fresh. I can highly recommend this to anyone who wants to try their hand at writing without having to sign up to a course or try to find someone to correct the writing (which was my main issue until now - I could write but didn’t know what I was doing wrong).

I’d love to hear what others have tried, and any particular prompts I can feed in that will help me improve my writing further! :slight_smile: I’m aiming to get to a comfortable, mistake-free(ish) B1/B2 until end of the year (I’m currently very much on N5 despite having passed the N4 last year, due to… never working on my output).

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#2

ChatGPT is still a very devisive tool when it comes to language, but in my experience I have found it to be very helpful. We do use it in my local study group if we can’t figure out an answer or need some examples. Our Japanese participants also use it if they are having a hard time explaining something and it often gets it correct.

Our goals might be different but here are some of the prompts I use.

Grammar conversation prompt:

*Can you create an everyday conversation between two people in Japanese? Trying to get a better grasp of the target grammar point. *

*Target grammar: *

Topic:

Collocations prompt

Can you provide a list of 6 common collocations in order from most commonly used?

Please include one example sentence for each result labeled as 例文.
Instead of the labeling the translation as Translation, please put 翻訳.
Do not include kana versions.
*Please do not highlight or bold any of the text. *
List numerically

Here is an example:

加熱する (To heat)
例文: 牛肉を加熱してください。
*翻訳: Please heat the beef. *
Target Word:

3 Likes
#3

I’ve actually started using Grok for this as well, if you don’t feed it bad prompts it’s actually quite good. keep the questions more specific (like don’t ask “what does です mean”) and I find it rather helpful.

There are times it will overly use terms though, for example I was practicing speaking in a more rough/casual manner to it, and it insisted on using ね at the end of sentences rather frequently. it does get hooked on parts of grammar or muddied by the previous prompts, so it needs to be refreshed rather often. There’s also the issue of it not quite understanding dialect or a lack of explanation over certain synonyms over others.

I think AI has been getting a particularly bad rap from people who either 1- don’t need the help or 2- people who don’t know what questions to ask.
In fairness a long-time tutor is still probably better than AI, though AI is definitely better than no tutor.

I used to use chat gpt 3 and that was horrible. I think the newer models are probably far better, but I’m not making an extra account just for it. lol

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#4

I think it’s a great tool and I use it a lot for more specific questions, usually comparing similar grammar or vocabulary to ask for different usage/nuance. I tried using it once or twice for a conversation, but my ability to output phrases is so low that ChatGPT would get stuck in a particular topic and I had trouble switching to something else to give me a “fresh start”.

BTW, I am definitely of the camp that uses more direct prompts (“provide xxx”, instead of “can you provide xxx?”). I refuse to be polite with AI haha

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#5

Ah, I remember now that I had tried prompting it to have a N5-N4 level conversation with me in Japanese. But that, after my replies, it should correct any mistakes in English and then return to the conversation in Japanese. It had a lot of trouble with using a second language and refused to explain the mistakes in English.

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#6

Chat GPT is a pretty useful tool overall. However, I would just suggest taking what it says with a pinch of salt. It is notorious for being confidently wrong about many things. This is usually not an issue when you can identify its mistakes, but can be really detrimental when you’re using it as a beginner trying to learn.

I often use it when checking my own explanations about English grammar in Japanese or when I need some more example sentences. It usually does a fantastic job, but there have been many instances where I noticed it made some type of mistake and even more when I didn’t notice it, but my coworkers did. I would suggest maybe getting a second set of eyes on the more important things it tells you. For example getting your Japanese teacher, language exchange partner or friends to check whatever it tells you as fact (rules of grammar, conjugations, particles etc)

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#7

yeah, I’m skeptical of chatGPT. I’m an highschool English teacher, several of mystudents had chatGPT write their essays. And if they don’t write by themselves, they aren’t going to become more confident with their output.

It does sound like you are still writing it yourself. which is good.
You could do this with out AI by posting your writing here, for instance in the 'have you written your Japanese sentence today"
To get your prompts you could use the writing exercize in a beginier textbook, hate the prompt then go. No, I’m writing "The centiped lives under the world. The centiped rots roots to make hell. The centiped eats bad people. Bad people burn and melt in stomach acid. "
百足は地球の下で住んでいる。地獄作るために百足は根を腐る. 悪い人を食べます。腹酸に悪い人が燃したり溶けしたりします。
I’m not confident in the last sentence, someone will probably correct it. Based on ニーズヘッグ - Wikipedia
Yeah, the grammer output is all N5 stuff, but I can say what I want. And I can read/watch any shonen. And look up words in a Japanese dictionary. (I looked up pugnacious today, in weblio by accident "喧嘩早いという意味の形容詞です。

Like, I would benifit fromyour method cause I’m nnot good at writing. But I can watch anime and talk about JujutsuKaizen with my Japanese friends. In my opinion- I got as much Japanese as I need. I’ll write some boring essay next week cause I don’t want my writing ability to prevent me from getting my next job in Japan (my contranct ends in 2026)

I think robots are much better speciallists than generalists.
I prefer to look up grammer in bunpro or on kanshudo which specialize in Japanese grammer than a generalist like Chat GPT.

#8

I see where you’re coming from, but many people are quite shy to share their writings with other people, even if they are just practice sentences. Like with how I learned to talk (in Japanese)- I started with Rosetta Stone and it helped immensely with talking. Though that is just a personal anecdote, I feel it’s a common enough feeling that it should be taken into account.

As for identifying it for a school situation, as a fellow teacher for ESL students, yeah that’s rough. But the exact thing you mentioned at the end is how you should catch it. as of now machines are very bad at getting specific details of things- like ask them about how to train Runecrafting in Old-School RuneScape, it will dawdle on about how to train using Runespan from Runescape 3. another thing one can catch is if the machine switches from American to British english and vice versa. Especially if you’re an english teacher you should know about the students’ levels so you could probe how they learned certain words. (like if they for some reason used a relatively obscure term like hyperfixation or something)

As with all things there’s a right and a wrong way to use a tool. You can use a hammer to build a house or break a window. it’s all about utilization.

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#9

I tried chatGPT for that, but my prompts were probably bad. I asked chatGPT to be my language partner and have a very simple N5 level conversation with me, but the answers were always way above N5.

Maybe I’ll try some of the methods mentioned in this thread next time :slight_smile: Thanks for everybodies advice and input :slight_smile:

1 Like
#10

I use chatgpt to create sentences in english that I then translate into japanese and ask it to check.

I struggle to think of basic things to write, and so come up with overly elaborate english sentences that translate badly.

In fact, here, just have my instructions:

Respond in English.
Highlight things that will assist in passing JLPT N3.
I am a native English speaker studying japanese as a hobby.
i am low intermediate.
highlight n3 words and grammar.
Im British, so lets not get too excited about things, but I do appreciate praise.

when I say, “translation test” I want a succession of english sentences, one at a time, that I will attempt to translate into Japanese.
It will be connected to the grammar point(s) that we’re discussing.
Give hints at first rather than corrections, but if I still get it wrong after a few attempts, just put me out of my misery. Use vocab that n3 should know, not restricted to my manga list.

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#11

I think I have to steal that one. I’m not British, but that overhyped corporate shill speak is really hard to enjoy, all those empty phrases, sometimes… ^^ If you don’t know yet (I guess you already know, but others might not), there is an option in chatGPT where you can give it a personality adn explain how it should talk to you. This setting will influence all your conversations. My chatGPT is a helpful granny called chatty who uses way to much emoji.

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#12

It would have to be marvin from hitch hikers guide to the galaxy;

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#13

I love the ideas of using it for additional grammar examples and as translation practice! Thanks for sharing these :heart:

I considered dropping sentences into the forum here but I actually think one of the main positives of using chatGPT is the instant feedback loop, it keeps me much more engaged and accountable, personally. This might also be a bit negative, but I have decided to not try and make Japanese connections or get a tutor because I find my current output abilities boring (for both myself and my potential friend/tutor) :laughing: I can’t really build relationships with my current abilities beyond superficial smalltalk, so I’ve decided for myself that that’s not worth my efforts right now.

I should note that when I write my sentences, I make a point of using other official resources to look up vocab and grammar I want to use, rather than chat GPT itself. I write my sentences into a separate doc and only drop them into chatGPT for the above mentioned corrections and additional native speaker suggestions, so even if the answers are a bit off that’s fine for me as my main aim is to increase my active vocabulary and grammar. I’m hoping that by also increasing my input through reading native material and watching jdramas I can mitigate any potential bad habits forming as I do have a grasp of what may not be correct. When in doubt I go back to the official language resources rather that chatGPT :slight_smile: this approach has been working well for me (as far as I can tell)