くれる VS もらう Grammar point

Japanese
#1

If I encounter a sentence that needs me to point out the receiver and the giver of the action, I can comprehend it. But I am unable to do the opposite, filling in the right verb according to the statement.

For example in the following question:

祖母が私に花を＿＿＿。

Choices:

  • あげた
  • くれた
  • もらった

My approach to the question was, if the action is of “being given”, あげる and くれる would fit, but as 私 is the person receiving, くれる would fit in this case and あげる is out. “Grandmother gave me flowers.”

But if the action is of “receiving from”, もらう would fit here. “Grandmother received flowers from me.”

Both くれる and もらう make sense to me. But the answer is くれる. Or is there too less context to judge the answer?
How to choose the verb in a situation like this.
Does anyone have tricks to make these verbs easier to understand?

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#2

would you mind to teach me grammar?

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#3

How am i supposed to teach if i dont have my own basics down lol

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#4

what do you mean ? okey sorry for that i don’t know that i’m just new here i’m just looking for a friend that are willing to help me study japanese grammar sense our jlpt exam is this coming july 5

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#5

the confusion is probably mainly that with もらう the subject is the receiver, hence it changes perspective in comparison with くれる and あげる

祖母が私に花をくれた = grandmother gave flowers to me (works)
祖母が私に花をあげた = grandmother gave flowers to me (unnatural though, you wouldn’t use あげる when the receiver is you)
祖母が私に花をもらった = grandmother received flowers from me (祖母 is the subject of the sentence, hence the receiver. The giver is marked with に, in this case you)
私が祖母に花をもらった = I received flowers from my grandmother

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#6

ooppp why??

#7

In the sentence you provided, if we take もらった then its being framed as “My grandmother got flowers (from someone)” so to make it a sentence with YOU as the giver, is rather weird. It would be more natural to mark your grandmother with に and say 花をあげた at that point.

もらう makes it sound like you’re an observer or describing an event, at least to me.

Imagine in English saying “My grandmother got flowers from me” it sounds a little strange right? You’d be far more likely to say “I gave flowers to my grandmother” as the first is just odd framing yourself into the objective sounding third party view of the scenario.

So I don’t think もらった is impossible, its just odd here and is a structure that heavily suggests くれた instead.

If the に marked noun wasn’t 私, but was instead someone else entirely like a policeman

祖母がおまわりさんに花をもらった

I don’t think this has anything wrong with it. But in the other scenario when you are marking yourself with に it just sounds odd.

TLDR
もらった Isn’t wrong just strange with you as the “giver”
I gave flowers to my grandmother - Normal
My grandmother received flowers from me - Odd sounding, but not ungrammatical
My grandmother received flowers from the policeman - Normal

This is the best way I can try to map it to English, but someone else can probably do a better job.

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#8

くれた is definitely the only possible anwers here. First of all, this is consistent in all giving-receiving sentences in Japanese grammar.

  1. The subject (the one before が or は) should be the one closer to yourself, in this order
    Yourself > Your Family > Your friends > Your company/classmates > Farther relationship, it could not be otherwise.

  2. So, in the sentence that contain both your grandmother (subject, before が, which is farther from yourself :smiley: ) and you (the target, before に) , this must be in the meaning of grandma giving you something, not the otherway around.
    If it is you who received something from grandma, it must be ”私は祖母に。。。もらった。”.
    If you give something to grandma, it must be ”私は祖母に…あげる。”.

  3. Since this is “grammar giving you something”, it is always くれる, not あげる. Just simply that くれる is used to describe “somebody giving you (or someone very close to you) something”.

This, any many other rather complex but subtle grammar thingy can be found in Shinkanzen Master Grammar books, I have only read them from N3 to N1, but each one of them further explain this point rather clearly.

So, if you see 私に, I dare say that the answer will be くれる.

#10

I mean… im not sure why some people here make it so complicated.
Its not really about grammar. They are just vocab.

くれる (呉れる) = Someone gives downwards/inwards (to me).
That means that the Subject is the giver.

あげる (上げる) = I give upwards/outwards (to Someone)
That means the Subject is usually oneself.

もらう (貰う) = I receive (by someone)
That means the Subject is usually oneself.

Those are what these verbs officially mean.
So only もらう can be interpreted as"to be given."
Not くれる and neither あげる mean “to be given”.
The two verbs mean “to give outwards” and “to give inwards” respectively.

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#11

This post in general has been helpful for me, but your response specifically helped make these points more clear, so thank you!
Seeing the Kanji I feel does help to differentiate these things a little better too. I haven’t yet learned the Kanji you showed in くれる, but just having it there helps isolate these a little more.

I have noticed a few points that I struggled with when they were introduced as pure hiragana, until I saw the Kanji for those points. Sometimes I knew part of the Kanji used, sometimes I knew none of it. But in general, I find it’s far easier for me to attach the meaning to a Kanji character than it is for me to associate it with just the sounds represented by hiragana.

I think the other part of where I’m getting hung up on these sorts of things is probably due in part to still learning the nuances of the sentence structure. As right now I’m just grinding vocab and individual grammar points, I’m not regularly stringing together complete sentences, so the overall structure isn’t as heavily reinforced as some of the individual components within the sentence. But as I get more familiar with these components, I’m finding that the sentences become easier to parse/reinforce