黄色 vs 黄色い？

Japanese
#1

I understand 黄色 is a noun, while 黄色い is an adjective. So I understand some context of when to use either but I have ran into a sentence that does not make sense to me why one uses the noun and the other uses the adjective form of yellow. Here are the sentences:

子供が農家に：「トマトの花は黄色いでしょう？」
Child to farmer: ‘Tomato flowers are yellow, right?’

この花の色は黄色です
The color of this flower is yellow.

To me these sentences are similar and telling you that N is Adj. But the are not.

Wondering if someone can better give me a guide on when colors in Japanese need the い and when they can remain a noun.

I do know the 色のN works to describe something color but I guess I am just confused on the more N is _____ structure.

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#2

Even in your English translated example sentences, yellow is functioning as a noun in one but an adjective in another. It’s just harder to tell because it doesn’t change forms like in Japanese. (This is something I didn’t really realize until I started studying Japanese either, so please don’t take offense, I don’t blame you.)

Let’s take a look at how your example sentences would sound if we flipped the noun/adjective function:
子供が農家に：「トマトの花は黄色 でしょう？」
Child to farmer: ‘Tomato flowers are yellow(noun), right?’
In this version, we are saying “tomato flowers = yellow” as in we aren’t describing the color, but moreso saying that the two are interchangeable. We could say “Bananas are tomato flowers” and be understood, or maybe that tomato flowers are also called by the name “yellow”.

この花の色は黄色い です
The color of this flower is yellow(adjective).
In this version, instead of saying the flower is yellow, it’s almost like we’re saying the color of the flower is yellow-ish. We aren’t stating the color, we’re describing the color, if that makes sense.

What determines which you use is essentially what the subject/topic of the sentence is. In the first example, the topic is the flowers themselves, meanwhile the second sentence is talking about the color itself, not the flowers. Does that help at all?

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#3

As a follow up, I’m trying to think of examples in English that would be more clear.

“Tomato flowers are beautiful, right?”
→ Beautiful is an adjective. You cannot say “tomato flowers are beauty, right?”

“The defining trait of this flower is beauty”
→ Beauty is a noun. Saying “The defining trait of this flower is beautiful” would give a different meaning.

Not sure if these were the most clear examples, but I agree that the confusion comes from English not having the different forms in many cases.

Taking this to Japanese, we have:
トマトの花は美しいでしょう?
→ 美しい adjective, just like English.

この花の一番のとくちょうは美しさです
→ 美しさ noun, just like English.

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#4

This is a great example of what I was trying to explain that makes it clearer in both English and Japanese, thanks for the addition!

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#5

Appreciate the replies! This definitely helps. Most of the time I am hung up on one aspect and need it compared in a different way and you guys did that for me!

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#6

Just today I was reviewing some N5 vocab -not doing reviews-, when I came across these sentences:

赤色のペンが欲しいです。

赤い箱が欲しいです。

Both are grammatically correct, but surely there is a nuance ¿or not?

#7

I am sure someone could explain it in a better way but mainly due to the の it helps make a noun an adjective (or possession) like in the sentence here:

赤色のペンが欲しいです。

and kind of what people above mentioned, red acts as a noun here because you could take away the のぺん part and the sentence would be correct.

if red the adjective form was used here in that sentence so:

赤いのペンが欲しいです。

It would more read as I want a pen that is red. The sentences could mean the same but there could be a difference in understanding.

The first one 赤色のペン to me means a pen with red ink whereas 赤いペン could mean a pen that is colored red on the outside or possibly pen with red ink.

But the more I think about it they could both mean what I said and just become different ways of saying it. But in the case of reviews, if a の is there in the sentence you need to use the Noun instead of the adjective.

#8

黄色 is also an adjective, so I don’t feel like anyone’s answering the question:
Why 黄色な花 vs. 黄色い花 vs. 黄色の花

My favorite color is yellow requires 黄色, noun
好きな色は黄色です。

My favorite yellow cow is Bessie requires an adjective, but is there any difference between the three?
好きな黄色な牛はベシーと申します。
好きな黄色の牛はベシーと申します。
好きな黄色い牛はベシーと申します。

(to my knowledge, the answer is - there is no difference in this case, but in cases like 大きい vs. 大きな there is one)

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#9

I think in this case it’s simple to explain why 色は黄色い is not possible. It’s the same reason why 黄色い色 is not possible. 黄色い is an i-adjective, it always describes the quality of something. And in Japanese you wouldn’t say “yellow colored color” any more than you would in English.

黄色 can act both as a noun and as an adjective, but in this sentence 黄色 acts as a noun, the specific color, not as an adjective describing the color of something. If it were to act as an adjective, it would be again an impossible construction, just like with 色は黄色い.

You could also say 「この花の色は黄です」, 黄 also mean the specific color yellow. So if BP had test sentences for 黄, I don’t know who you’d decide which one to fill in.

In this case indeed I think any adjective would work, both 黄色い and 黄色 acting as a na- or no- adjective. Perhaps 子供 is a hint steering towards 黄色い as a more plain word typical for children, but I’m not too sure.

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#10

Yeah… I don’t even know why I basically skipped the context of that sentence. It would sound goofy to say an adjective for a noun (being 色) rather that another noun so thanks for pointing that out!

the more I study Japanese the more I question my understanding of English anymore since it seems I forgot how grammar works :sweat_smile:

#11

Thanks for clarifying that even those usages of colors would still generally mean the same! Yeah and as you and casual said, it requires a noun and I should have gotten that context but hey this is why I ask in this forum