We really need to be able to review grammar points even after SRS Lvl12

Bunpro
#1

Hello,

I really don’t believe getting to Level 12 on any grammar point means we are expert about that topic and we won’t need to review it ever again. There is no such thing as “we won’t show you this ever again because you answered it correctly 12 times” in any SRS application/system other than Bunpro (as far as I know). Sure, you may have like few months between reviews but it is still there. We also don’t have “backwards” SRS, we have ghost reviews and they are great but not the same thing.

I know we can reset grammar points to review them again but that’s not practical because if we do that we will have to review those too much.

Can we do something about it? Are there plans about it or will it stay this way?

Edit: By the way I created a similar topic before and after I got my answer totally forgot to check it again, there are some discussions I guess but still not sure: I don't get enough reviews for some older grammar points

4 Likes
#2

Every SRS I’m familiar with has this, actually. The thing I’ve suggested people do when this has come up in the past is to intentionally fail the card when it comes up for review at SRS 11. I know that’s not what you want, but it’s what the platform currently supports.

5 Likes
#3

I think no one with lots of items on SRS level 12 would agree with you.
I think you would not agree with your current idea about this if you would have many items on level 12.

I used to think similarly (although this was in regards to Wanikani), but now I don’t agree with how I used to think about never “burning” items.

Now I think it is a good thing to stop repeating stuff on SRS. This frees up time to read, watch things with or without subtitles, look stuff up in a dictionary (or on Wanikani) or look grammar up in a grammar book (or on Bunpro).

I now look at SRS sort of like training weels.
It’s not language learning 's be all end all.
(Although it is a blessing for someone with as bad a memory as mine.)

A very important part of SRS is to fail the items you don’t remember well, and pass the ones you do. This way, you can keep the ones that are difficult for you alive much longer than it would take to zoom through the 12 levels. You will repeat them much more. And by the time you get them to 12, you will know them (and be sick and tired of repeating them.) The ones you get right all the time don’t need repeating. Because you get them right anyway.

I am just a BunPro user like you but having gotten a bunch of stuff to 12, I’m glad those items are gone. This gives me the time to learn new stuff. It is my guess that the people that make BunPro anticipated that people would feel this way when they got to this sort of level.

7 Likes
#4

This can also be remedied if the Cram feature is enhanced to let users select the cram material from specific SRS levels. Then you could just sit down and occasionally drill yourself on all your Stage 12 items.

EDIT: The Cram feature is still a good tool to use even without SRS stage filtering, as it will include things that you have “burned” and give you a good self-test of how your retention is doing for various items.

8 Likes
#5

As someone who’s been trying to get more reading into my schedule, I can promise you, there is no better SRS for grammar than reading (or any consumption of native materials).

I understand the desire for more levels, but I think Bunpro works best when you pair it with native materials, and grow your knowledge that way. Like those who request levels beyond 60 on WK, you have to let go of the tool eventually, and take that dive if you ever really want to know the language.

At the moment you still have the options to:
-Intentionally get SRS 11 wrong to make a ghost.
-Add your own sentences for additional practice.
-Use the cram feature to go over any grammar of your choosing. (I do agree a ‘burn’ specific cram would be a neat feature to add!)
-Use the reading feature to review the grammar with more context.

But I honestly can’t recommend actually using native material enough. Even at N5/N4, there are resources and content aimed towards beginners. If I could go back in time, I’d start listening and reading even sooner–it makes a difference! :slight_smile: Let Bunpro be a jump start to your journey, not a crutch.

8 Likes
#6

Would it be that hard to make an option like
“Cap SRS Level at 11” or something so everyone is happy

3 Likes
#7

This is a platform consistently getting updated so I’m not asking for something out of the ordinary. I thing adding an option like “review level 12 grammar points” would be pretty easy to implement.

I sometimes even forget things with 2-3 months review breaks in Anki, it happens. I know native material is important, I’m doing that too but getting to level 12 and not seeing that grammar point does not make sense to me.

3 Likes
#8

Let’s say you see level 12 grammar points with 3 months of breaks and you have 300 level 12 grammar points, that means you roughly would see 3 extra grammar point per day, I don’t think that’s something I wouldn’t want. That’s not much time if my math is correct.

#9

Why would you want to repeat stuff on SRS that you know really well?

And if you don’t know that stuff well, how did you get it right enough times to get it to level 12?

You assume that the road to level 12 is straight. I can tell you that for a non-genius like myself, it can be rather bendy. This means I get lots of ghosts to ram home the things that I’m too thick to get right away. This also means I don’t level up the stuff I don’t understand thoroughly as quickly. This means that by the time I DO get it to 12, I have gotten it into my thick skull. And that I can then focus my attention on stuff that needs it. Because by goodness there is a lot of stuff. There is too much stuff. There is entirely too much stuff to learn with this language.

To reply to the point you made more seriously:

For instance, would you want to keep getting interrogated about hiragana at this point in your studies? Wouldn’t that feel like wasting your time? Getting quizzed about three hiragana characters every day. While you’re trying to learn other stuff. It would be a useless waste of your time. Because you are using your hiragana reading skills all the time doing more interesting stuff.

(I don’t mean to be patronising with the hiragana example. I have no idea of your language level and it doesn’t matter. That’s why I took the most extreme example.)
I’m now in the thick of N3 and N2 grammar, and I am being tested all the time about all the things in N5 and N4 through the N3 and N2 tests. I don’t need to be quizzed about them separately anymore.

4 Likes
#10

Why would you want to repeat stuff on SRS that you know really well?

Getting level 12 doesn’t mean you know it very well or you won’t forget it ever again.

You assume that the road to level 12 is straight. I can tell you that for a non-genius like myself, it can be rather bendy.

I have some stuff at level 12. It is easy because if you fail it system asks you again at the end of the review, you remember it because you saw the result already and you are in the next level. There is basically no way to fail, if you do your reviews daily even if you don’t even understand the point, you will level up.

I don’t need to be quizzed about them separately anymore.

Then you can turn off the “option”.

1 Like
#11

and those review items get called ~zombies~ because u cant kill them. Then we also get a new badge series for those.

6 Likes
#12

Why is the bunpro team taking so long to implement this? Come on team
But ya I like that idea and it does feel pretty on brand for bunpro.

#13

It’s easy to fail. Just get your item wrong. Then you fail. Depending on your ghosts settings you will get a ghost. Also even without ghosts, the item doesn’t level up. (You claim it does. It doesn’t. Even when you get the item right the second time. )

You can cheat your way to level 12. But then that’s on you.

#14

I’m curious, if the team implemented the suggestion of being able to cram level 12 items, would that work for you?

I’m trying to find a compromise, since if the team were to expand beyond level 12, I’d imagine that would mean adding even more sentences, which takes up time from features they could add elsewhere. (And given other threads on here, people are also itching for other things to be addressed as well.) Since cram is already a thing, I’d think it’d be easier to focus on touching that up, rather than spending another year or so adding dozens of more sentences for additional reviews. (And even more years beyond that, as I imagine people would want unique sentences, since ghosts already get criticized for being memorizable.)

For me, I’d rather they focus on patching up any bugs, finalizing N1, and such, rather than only ever doing more sentences, which I could easily get from just reading native material. :woman_shrugging:

Would adding those sentences from the native material you consume also not satisfy the suggestion? It gets the added bonus of being from material you already enjoy, and since you know it’s grammatically correct, it’d make for nice extra study questions. (And help you work on the badge, if you care about badges.)

Genuine questions. Just trying to find faster/easier solutions to what you want.

1 Like
#15

My thoughts, after the interval is that high, it should be being reinforced in your immersion. If is it not, you are not immersion enough and no amount of Bunpro will help you at that point.

If it is not in your long term memory at that point its really not going to be, and if you are afraid its not going to stick along the way, keep your ghosts reviews up.

If that doesn’t help, cram.

That’s is really all you need. You can review your high SRS grammar, but they don’t need to be in the reviews. Cram and Ghosts are more than enough.

6 Likes
#16

Personally I don’t want to see additional reviews of the items that have reached level 12.

An option to use the cram feature for level 12 items could be useful but I doubt that I would use it much.

3 Likes
#17

I’m trying to find a compromise, since if the team were to expand beyond level 12, I’d imagine that would mean adding even more sentences, which takes up time from features they could add elsewhere.

Oh I’m not saying they should add new sentences, just get a random sentence from that grammar point and add to the review list time to time. That way I can refresh my memory, that’s all.

2 Likes
#18

That’s is really all you need. You can review your high SRS grammar, but they don’t need to be in the reviews. Cram and Ghosts are more than enough.

Not enough for me, I’m asking for an option where we can do that, not a forced update. Ghosts are optional for example.

#19

Also even without ghosts, the item doesn’t level up.

How many times do we need to answer correctly to the same sentence for SRS to level up?

#20

I’m just not sure how this is different from Cram then? That’s the purpose of the feature, allowing you to review whatever grammar you want whenever you want a refresher.