We really need to be able to review grammar points even after SRS Lvl12

Bunpro
#14

I’m curious, if the team implemented the suggestion of being able to cram level 12 items, would that work for you?

I’m trying to find a compromise, since if the team were to expand beyond level 12, I’d imagine that would mean adding even more sentences, which takes up time from features they could add elsewhere. (And given other threads on here, people are also itching for other things to be addressed as well.) Since cram is already a thing, I’d think it’d be easier to focus on touching that up, rather than spending another year or so adding dozens of more sentences for additional reviews. (And even more years beyond that, as I imagine people would want unique sentences, since ghosts already get criticized for being memorizable.)

For me, I’d rather they focus on patching up any bugs, finalizing N1, and such, rather than only ever doing more sentences, which I could easily get from just reading native material. :woman_shrugging:

Would adding those sentences from the native material you consume also not satisfy the suggestion? It gets the added bonus of being from material you already enjoy, and since you know it’s grammatically correct, it’d make for nice extra study questions. (And help you work on the badge, if you care about badges.)

Genuine questions. Just trying to find faster/easier solutions to what you want.

1 Like
#15

My thoughts, after the interval is that high, it should be being reinforced in your immersion. If is it not, you are not immersion enough and no amount of Bunpro will help you at that point.

If it is not in your long term memory at that point its really not going to be, and if you are afraid its not going to stick along the way, keep your ghosts reviews up.

If that doesn’t help, cram.

That’s is really all you need. You can review your high SRS grammar, but they don’t need to be in the reviews. Cram and Ghosts are more than enough.

7 Likes
#16

Personally I don’t want to see additional reviews of the items that have reached level 12.

An option to use the cram feature for level 12 items could be useful but I doubt that I would use it much.

3 Likes
#17

I’m trying to find a compromise, since if the team were to expand beyond level 12, I’d imagine that would mean adding even more sentences, which takes up time from features they could add elsewhere.

Oh I’m not saying they should add new sentences, just get a random sentence from that grammar point and add to the review list time to time. That way I can refresh my memory, that’s all.

3 Likes
#18

That’s is really all you need. You can review your high SRS grammar, but they don’t need to be in the reviews. Cram and Ghosts are more than enough.

Not enough for me, I’m asking for an option where we can do that, not a forced update. Ghosts are optional for example.

#19

Also even without ghosts, the item doesn’t level up.

How many times do we need to answer correctly to the same sentence for SRS to level up?

#20

I’m just not sure how this is different from Cram then? That’s the purpose of the feature, allowing you to review whatever grammar you want whenever you want a refresher.

#21

Because when you do cram you get random stuff, not based on the time you last reviewed those points. For example let’s say you have 100 lvl 12, you cram then you get 100 of them, let’s say you finish 10 and do cram again tomorrow you may see the same 10 again, it’s just random.

#22

For immediate solutions: You could manually select some you know you have trouble with, or leave the tab open to not reset the cram/don’t exit the cram, so you won’t get repeats until you’ve finished.

#23

srs 12 is like 1.5 years after you studied it for the first time, when would the srs 13 review show up? after 3 years?

if you don’t encounter a grammar point in the wild after 3 years then you might as well skip it completely, no? i would even argue that having level 12 is counter-productive since it’s an incentive to sit 8 more months on bunpro instead of immersing yourself in native content asap

2 Likes
#24

I’m living in Japan and “immerse” myself daily and there’s still grammar points on Bunpro that I have yet to enounter in everyday situations, television, or books. I want to make sure I remember them.

If I encounter a grammar point past SRS12 on this website either I’ll remember it and take just literally 5 whole seconds to answer the Bunpro question about it, or I’ll have forgotten it in which case the post-SRS12 functionality would have proven its usefulness.

In either case I’m not sure why people are arguing against a suggestion for optional functionality.

4 Likes
#25

To be clear, my main argument against it is my advice on not being overly reliant on apps for language learning. (Context does a lot when consuming native material. And there will certainly be less N1 and some N2 grammar in daily Japanese life, so I’m not surprised you don’t encounter it. Though if you want more chances, more technical books or advanced topics of most any field may have some. Just a suggestion :slight_smile: )

Not only that, but there are other features on Bunpro that serve similar enough functionality, that I thought it worthwhile to mention, especially if OP wishes to utilize such things sooner. (And even the option to take the sentences and put them into your own Anki decks, for example.)

If the team chooses to add it, that’s fine. And there’s nothing wrong with suggesting the idea. But I currently don’t see the value in adding it. Optional or not. It will come at the cost of the team’s time, which I think there are other things that should take priority. Especially, as I said, there are already multiple workarounds that serve the same/similar function.

1 Like
#26

I just really don’t understand what you are asking for. Are you asking for a SRS 13 that last 2 years?

#27

I agree that there’s a lot you can’t or won’t get with just typical “immersion,” and it makes sense to me to want to use an app like this to “stay fresh” on the more obscure stuff.

However, I also agree that further SRS stages really are not the solution. I know Cram prompts don’t work the same as the “normal” review conditions, but big deal? It’ll still test you, and give you an idea of what items may need to have their SRS reset so that you re-learn it. You know how if you fail an Enlightened review (instead of Burning) in WK, it drops aaallllll the way down to Apprentice 4 (I think)? That’s basically what you’d do, except manually.

I feel like the team’s effort would be best spent implementing more filters for Cram, which should be comparatively simple, and then moving back to work on the less niche needs of the customers/product.

2 Likes
#28

Only once, but on the first go.
So if you get it wrong on the first go, you fail the item. This has different consequences depending on your settings, (ghost might be created, item might fall a level or two) but it NEVER advances the item to the next stage if you fail it on the first go.

You get a second (third… fourth…) try as long as you keep getting the item wrong, but this doesn’t impact the SRS system anymore. This is just to make sure you understand what the right answer should be. This is how you memorise the stuff you get wrong. This is why you are bothered more about stuff you get wrong than about stuff that is easy to you.

This is why I keep arguing against this optional thing. Because, with all due respect I think it’s useless. And I think that if you need it, you have been doing SRS wrong. I understand that this is just my opinion, I am willing to be convinced otherwise, but so far I haven’t been.

Edit, addition:

Specific to Bunpro is the fact that in the web interface you can very easily backspace your way back out of a wrong answer. When you use backspace after you got something wrong, it resets to your first “try” (most of the time). This is a very easy way to evade the srs system, and evade the “negative” consequences of getting something wrong. However I would argue that these “negative” consequences (ghosts, “demotion” of your items) are in fact the whole reason to use SRS in the first place. Because that is how you learn stuff that’s not easy to you. So I’m telling everyone who reads this whilst also telling myself again: IT’S OK TO GET STUFF WRONG. In fact that’s the whole idea.
This way by the time you get to level 11 or 12, you really really really know your stuff.

4 Likes
#29

I completely agree.

1 Like
#30

Personally I would appreciate just yearly intervals with sentences that already exist on the site. There are grammar points I don’t encounter in everyday life that I’d like to ensure I remember. At SRS12 will I likely remember stuff? Yeah, probably. But regardless I’d like to encounter them again.

2 Likes
#31

In either case I’m not sure why people are arguing against a suggestion for optional functionality.

Well thank you.

I’m not being lazy, I create an anki card for every grammar point. I also do crams, I even created a script where I can change how crams work for my needs. It’s just more customisation for reviews would be good. If we get to the SRS12 just show us random sentence from that grammar point in like once per 2-3 months, if we want it of course.

#32

I know it has been a long thing since the last post. But it baffles me that this still isn’t an option. Have been looking for it. Easy bulk SRS reset, or an option for never burning. It’s easy to make such an option. Or to cram all the burned items.

And will all the arguments against it, you are all forgetting one simple aspect, and it surprises me you do. You can mix up things! Imagine you ‘burned’ the particle ‘ga’. And then you learn ‘ha’. You’ll never get ‘ga’ anymore because it’s burned and every time you need to enter something like that, you’ll just enter ‘ha’. Because that’s the new grammar point you just learned. Will you ever learn about the subtle difference between those items this way? No. It’s the same with kanji and the same reason WaniKani is flawed for burned kanji.

Plus, adding in items you already burned would add more ‘confusion’ and thus better testing. In other words, it’s easier to remember 10 times 10 things than 100 things at a time.

And immersion is fun and games, but it’s not a quiz where you’re told what the real answer is.

#33

Never mind xD I just found out you CAN cram ‘burned’ items. Sorry haha.

1 Like